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Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:58 pm
by AdvenJack
If you tour around this big USA with a carbureted engine
that's been running perfectly in your local riding area, say
Denver, CO, when you get to places 1000 feet, 2000 feet,
3000 feet, etc. lower, all the way down to sea level locals,
does your engine still run well?
What if your home location is at sea level and you ride
your carbureted bike up to Denver, will you expect to be
running well?
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:33 am
by Gladiator
During the last years, Ive done several Mountains up to 2 900 meters (Großglockner 9500 feet?) but never had any Problems. The engine was alway running perfekt and fresh. If there were any "Problems" with the Carburetor and the Level......it was not so hard that I could take notice. It also cound be the rise of the mountain.
With my Kawasaki VN 1500 I got Problems over 1600 meters (5200 feet?)
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:00 am
by CanuckHoss
For short term trips etc it will / should run ok. For me I am at 3,600 feet and whenever I bring a bike or trike in from the USA 95% of the time it is running way to rich!!
You are doing the opposite and it will be running a bit lean when down to sea level. EFI is nice as I have done a BB and SB with EFI in the past year.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:21 pm
by SQ4MN
My view is their are virtually millions of cars and trucks with small block Chevys in them in every location, they all had the same carb when new. They all ran fine. My bike has been at the top of the highest mountain in Colorado to below sea level without any problems. Always runs good. Carbs rely on physics that will never change. Fuel injection relies on computers. Carbs are out because they pollute. FI is cleaner. We got gasoline now with no lead and lots of corn in it so it probably doesn't pollute to much anyway. I don't like envoairmentalists so if I upset em its fine with me. I like carbs, FI is probably better if the computer is programed correctly. I understand carbs and can fix carbs, I am an idiot about computers. Napa has new carbs and fuel pumps everywhere, only Boss Hoss has their computers and the old ones are out of stock.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:20 am
by Jack
Carbs aren't horrible at all. They can run as clean as EFI, but need to be tuned to do it - by a competent tuner. EFI has code written by those tuners so that it can adjust based off of conditions.
So, if you can really tune a carb, you'll be fine, you'll be better than fine.
If you can't tune a carb, EFI will do the tuning for you with the steeper price of admission.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:53 pm
by The Mindless Philosopher
I live on the desert floor at just shy of 150 ft above sea level. The highest elevation I've ridden so far is just over 4,000 ft. The engine started and ran like a champ either way. Couldn't tell any difference at all. Carburetor Mike Stage II (reworked Edelbrock 1901) with recommended calibrations.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:34 pm
by AdvenJack
I really appreciate all of you sharing your info. I favor
carbs based on what has been shared, as a person need
not mess with electrical aspects of making the engine
operate WELL. It seems to me, if one can avoid electricity
regarding motor vehicles, it's easier to learn the remainder
of what makes everything else "tick". Yes for road
vehicles we need headlights, tail lights, etc. Some folks
want to play music through speakers, and some want to
charge their cell phones. We don't want to "hand crank"
our engines for the most part, (I guess some people
might?). But so many repairs are rooted in electricity I'd
think that when it can be avoided, DO IT! Thanks again
friends!!!
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:58 am
by V-MAN
Jack wrote:Carbs aren't horrible at all. They can run as clean as EFI, but need to be tuned to do it - by a competent tuner. EFI has code written by those tuners so that it can adjust based off of conditions.
So, if you can really tune a carb, you'll be fine, you'll be better than fine.
If you can't tune a carb, EFI will do the tuning for you with the steeper price of admission.
I would have to agree with Jack on this. A properly tuned carb can run as clean or cleaner then FI. I prefer carbs because I can fix them and tune them in my garage with a few simple hand tools. I do have FI bikes and have specific tuners to work with them. Special tuner and laptop = more $$$$ and a lot more time.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:30 pm
by AdvenJack
V-MAN wrote:
A properly tuned carb can run as clean or cleaner then FI. I prefer carbs because I can fix them and tune them in my garage with a few simple hand tools. I do have FI bikes and have specific tuners to work with them. Special tuner and laptop = more $$$$ and a lot more time.
I'm RIGHT
HERE!!!
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:24 am
by Jack
There is a very dense population of Jacks who ride V8 bikes. Remarkable really.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:21 pm
by AdvenJack
Birth certificate name JOHN
Jack is the very common nickname for JOHN, why in God's name, I have NO idea!!!
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:57 pm
by hogv8
John , nick named Jack here .
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 am
by Elvis
This thread has been hi "Jack" ed
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:05 pm
by petitemoose
Thankfully I don't know JACK Shit so I cannot be held responsible ...
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:07 pm
by AdvenJack
JACK SHIT is a Muthu F#@*$%, so be happy you've
NOT MET!!!
AND - At the airport ALWAYS say, " HELLO Jack" or "Hi JOHN" or "Hello JOHN",
BUT NEVER SAY "HI JACK"!!!
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:53 am
by Jack
Jack, and born that way
Just a bunch'a'wannabes? lol
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:56 pm
by AdvenJack
Tells the tale...
https://dmnes.wordpress.com/2017/01/28/ ... e-of-john/
{ 
Stop JACKIN' AROUND and get an AVATAR
}
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:58 pm
by Ulyssesj
I agree that a carb can run as clean as efi to a certain extent. Carbs rely on physics, yes and no. The carb will run as clean as efi when properly tuned for a CERTAIN elevation. That's it. It may work ok at different elevations but not as good as when it was tuned at X elevation. You see the jets don't know if you have gone up or down. They spray a metered amount of fuel based on throttle plate opening and vacuum. The downfall here is available air. Higher elevations have less available, but the carb is still trying to supply too much fuel, so it will run rich. It may run ok but make no mistake, it's rich. (Carb tuned at lower elevations).
Opposite lower down, more air/fuel ratio makes it lean. Still runs ok, but again will be lean.
Efi is programmed to run a certain a/f ratio at any given elevation based on pressure, temp, and the ever popular O2 sensor. It will adjust and compensate.
I guess if you want to make yourself feel good and tingly by saying your carb running car or bike is as clean burning as efi, then as least let people that may not be familiar know that your talking about only under certain conditions. Lets not fool ourselves.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:27 pm
by Ron Radulski
Ulyssesj wrote:I agree that a carb can run as clean as efi to a certain extent. Carbs rely on physics, yes and no. The carb will run as clean as efi when properly tuned for a CERTAIN elevation. That's it. It may work ok at different elevations but not as good as when it was tuned at X elevation. You see the jets don't know if you have gone up or down. They spray a metered amount of fuel based on throttle plate opening and vacuum. The downfall here is available air. Higher elevations have less available, but the carb is still trying to supply too much fuel, so it will run rich. It may run ok but make no mistake, it's rich. (Carb tuned at lower elevations).
Opposite lower down, more air/fuel ratio makes it lean. Still runs ok, but again will be lean.
Efi is programmed to run a certain a/f ratio at any given elevation based on pressure, temp, and the ever popular O2 sensor. It will adjust and compensate.
I guess if you want to make yourself feel good and tingly by saying your carb running car or bike is as clean burning as efi, then as least let people that may not be familiar know that your talking about only under certain conditions. Lets not fool ourselves.
Tullfan
Very well said Ulyssesj
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:48 pm
by SQ4MN
There can be no argument about which system is the best for delivering the best mixture to the motor under any condition. Carbs are a compromise in delivering the mix but under street conditions they work fine and they are more reliable and easily repaired or replaced. I believe we would still have carb equipped vehicles if it wasn't for envoairmentalists.
In the real world without racing in the equation carb equipped V8 bikes are just fine. If you are in need of the last bit of HP you can get out of your motor than there is no choice, FI is it. I still prefer carbs on both my V8 bikes, I understand them and can tinker with them if needed. I am older than pretty much anyone still riding a two wheeler in the V8 world. Old guys love stuff that has been working for many many years, we like stuff thats simple and to most old guys computers are not simple for us.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:04 am
by V-MAN
Ulyssesj wrote:I agree that a carb can run as clean as efi to a certain extent. Carbs rely on physics, yes and no. The carb will run as clean as efi when properly tuned for a CERTAIN elevation. That's it. It may work ok at different elevations but not as good as when it was tuned at X elevation. You see the jets don't know if you have gone up or down. They spray a metered amount of fuel based on throttle plate opening and vacuum. The downfall here is available air. Higher elevations have less available, but the carb is still trying to supply too much fuel, so it will run rich. It may run ok but make no mistake, it's rich. (Carb tuned at lower elevations).
Opposite lower down, more air/fuel ratio makes it lean. Still runs ok, but again will be lean.
Efi is programmed to run a certain a/f ratio at any given elevation based on pressure, temp, and the ever popular O2 sensor. It will adjust and compensate.
I guess if you want to make yourself feel good and tingly by saying your carb running car or bike is as clean burning as efi, then as least let people that may not be familiar know that your talking about only under certain conditions. Lets not fool ourselves.
Tullfan
Tullfan -
You are right, a significant change in elevation up or down will obviously have an effect on a carb tune. It's still easier to make an adjustment to your carb sitting in a parking lot of hotel with a couple hand tools then it is to have a laptop and specialized tools to diagnose an issue with your efi. A fuel injection system can strand you pretty easy if/when you have parts in the system fail. I can carry most extra parts I would need for a complete carb rebuild in a small sandwich baggy ... NOT the case with an fi system. Want to talk cost on parts of carb vs FI? I'll keep my carb and $$ over efi thanks. No fooling here ... I wasn't trying to mislead anybody else either.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:35 am
by AdvenJack
I'm with V-Man for the "shade-tree-mechanic" community!
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:12 pm
by Ulyssesj
I was not replying for the benefit of carb vs Efi. I was just sorta clarifying the mine runs as clean as issue. I too would take a properly tuned carb'd motor over a an Efi system. For 2 reasons though. First is ease of repair (even though changing metering jets in a parking lot is archaic and a best guess scenario, but can be done, lol. I am with you on ease of repair or tuning when needed.
#2 for me is just the way a carb'd vehicle sounds when its running correctly. Put a nice cam in, good mufflers, a nice set of headers and properly tune. Man it will sound sweet. Lumpy idle, not perfectly smooth like Efi. the smell of raw gas and burning rubber when you pull away a little hard. Just can't be beat.
Problem is that there are not many people that can still tune them properly. It is a dying art. More often than not these bikes are over carb'd because someone said bigger or more is better. Education is the key. If we are not teaching then next up and comers the basics, we will lose the art. That goes for problem solving, no starts, sticky brake lights. Knowledge is power, too little knowledge is just enough to cause problems or be dangerous.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:49 pm
by Jack
You guys like replacing points in your distributors too?
Tullfan is absolutely right, I don't disagree and wasn't trying to mislead anyone implying that a single tune-up in a carb was ideal in all conditions.
FWIW - I was one of the first to convert their V8 bike to EFI... something tells me I won't be the last either. I did this after tuning my carb with a vacuum gauge and a box of jets, rods, and valves... and all of that old stuff...
Replaced it because of unrelated ignition problems, and the fact that I can't fit a real carb on my bike.
Re: Carburetor Vs EFI
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:58 pm
by Ulyssesj
Haha points.I needed to borrow my wifes nail file one time. She didnt ask why and I didn’t volunteer any information at time of asking. It wasn’t untill we were loaded up and headed home she asked. Needless to say she wasn’t too impressed about me adjusting the points a bit with her stuff. Things you do in a pinch.
Besides I’m sure that knowledge is also out the window. Nobody needs to know about ignition systems, sheesh. You just turn the key and it goes or it doesn’t, right?
Anyway, been a hoot chattin.