Another dum Brit question

[knockdolian]

Hi all, this may seem a stupid question but having googled GM engine development ive just confused myself more. I beleve my engine is a ZZ4. My question is what makes it a ZZ4 and whats the difference between that and the LS. I know the later engines are aluminum or have aluminum heads and FI. Could somebody please enlighten me. Also could somebody recommend a good read that would give me more infomation. Thanks

[Jack]

ZZ4 is the "old school" small block Chevy crate motor, came with aluminum heads.
The LS motors are the a newer generation small block and some come with aluminum blocks too. The latest gen, GM went back to the LT nomenclature.

Easiest way to tell them apart? Look at the exhaust pipes. ZZ4 will have 1-2-1 as far as spacing goes. The new LS motors are equally separated like a Ford.

ZZ4 traditionally has a distributor, the LS will have coil packs.

ZZ4 is typically carbureted and the LS is typically MPFI... but I've seen FI ZZ4s and carbed LSs.

There are literally thousands of differences but these may be the most obvious.

The ZZ4 style small block has been in production since the 50s, and the LS was first introduced on the 1997 Corvette I believe.

[ventury]

ITS a green ,environment thing that bought in the LS engines

With the LS2 (used in a Boss for one year only 2008 I think),the CC was 6litre then the LS3 was 6.2litre
Also I believe the flow direction of cooling fluid was reverse only on the LS2
I have done thousands of miles on both LS engines and the ZZs......They are efficient ,lighter and greener (Which was the main characteristic of the LS)
BUT I do prefer the ZZ engine,it feels more real,more rougher on the edges less perfect that gives it a more overall appeal ,to listern to and to ride

JUST MY OPINION THOUGH LOL

counting down the days for my Chopper to arrive

[knockdolian]

Thanks for the replys. John im with you. Ive only got old cars, points, condensors etc. Stuff you can fix.
John when does the bike arrive ?

[TXscooterguy]

While we're talking motors, I have a 2015 25th Anniversary trike with a LS 300 motor. When I Google "GM LS 300 V8 motor" I don't get much information. Anything you guys can add? Maybe point to a source that has the specs for this motor. Thanks. Dennis

[Jack]

Hi Dennis,

I have been under the impression that the Boss Hoss naming convention for their engine options is completely unrelated to GM's naming convention.

Unfortunately, the Boss Hoss website is even more confusing. In the description it says 5.7L but in the specs it says 4.8L.

I believe, based on what little I know, that the LS 300 V8 motor is a 4.8L LS. Not to be confused with the 6.2 in the LS-3 bikes and not unlike what you find in the GM pickup trucks. Great motor. But it isn't a 5.7... GM hasn't put a 5.7L motor in a vehicle in a while... they went to 5.3, 6.0, and 6.2 I believe. A 4.8 is identical to it's 5.3L big brother except for overall displacement by way of bore and stroke.
You won't find a lot of documentation as it relates to BH using these motors, but there is A LOT of information out there on the 4.8 and the LS family.

[petitemoose]

Here is a link to the tech data and other useful info for the ZZ4 small block

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/cr ... 4-350.html

If for some reason the link does not work, here are the tech specs:

Block Part Number:
10105123

Block Type:
Cast iron with 4-bolt main caps

Bore x stroke (in):
4.00 x 3.48

Camshaft duration (@.050 in):
208 degree intake / 221 degree exhaust

Camshaft lift (in):
.474 intake / .510 exhaust

Camshaft Part Number:
10185071

Camshaft type:
Steel hydraulic roller

Compression ratio:
10:1

Connecting Rod Part Number:
10108688

Connecting rods Type:

Powdered metal steel
Crankshaft Part Number:
12556307

Crankshaft Type:
Forged steel

Cylinder head Part Number:
12556463

Cylinder head Type:
Aluminum; 58cc chambers

Displacement (cu in):
350

Engine Name:
ZZ4 350

Engine type:
Chevy small-block V-8

Ignition timing:
10 degree BTDC @ 800 rpm 32 degree total @ 4000 rpm with vacuum advance disconnected

Maximum rpm:
5800

NOTE:
Distributor with melonized steel gear MUST be used with long blocks and partial engines with steel camshafts, or engine damage will occur.

Piston Part Number:
10159436

Pistons Type:
High-silicon aluminum with offset pins

Recommended fuel:
92 octane

Rocker arm ratio:
1.5:1

Rocker arms Part Number:
10089648

Rocker arms Type:
Stamped steel

Valve size (in):
1.94 intake / 1.50 exhaust

[TXscooterguy]

Hi Dennis,

I have been under the impression that the Boss Hoss naming convention for their engine options is completely unrelated to GM's naming convention.

So I'm guessing GM would call this motor their Vortec L20, huh? Here is the GM link on its specs:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/l20/

Thanks for your help. Dennis

[TXscooterguy]

So I'm guessing GM would call this motor their Vortec L20, huh? Here is the GM link on its specs:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/l20/

Hmm, my Boss Hoss owner's manual says to use 93 octane gas. The above spec calls for regular gas. I'm going to try 87 octane and see what happens. When you're touring, I believe those gas stations out in the boondocks sell more 87 gas than 93 and thus the 87 would be fresher.

[knockdolian]

Ha, seems the only dumb question is the one not asked!!! I'm glad it's that complicated. I had real problems trying to work it out. Thanks for the link and spec sheet. Just for interest I don't think my heads are aluminium ?

[Ron Radulski]

Hi Dennis,

I have been under the impression that the Boss Hoss naming convention for their engine options is completely unrelated to GM's naming convention.

Unfortunately, the Boss Hoss website is even more confusing. In the description it says 5.7L but in the specs it says 4.8L.

I believe, based on what little I know, that the LS 300 V8 motor is a 4.8L LS. Not to be confused with the 6.2 in the LS-3 bikes and not unlike what you find in the GM pickup trucks. Great motor. But it isn't a 5.7... GM hasn't put a 5.7L motor in a vehicle in a while... they went to 5.3, 6.0, and 6.2 I believe. A 4.8 is identical to it's 5.3L big brother except for overall displacement by way of bore and stroke.
You won't find a lot of documentation as it relates to BH using these motors, but there is A LOT of information out there on the 4.8 and the LS family.

Jack, I agree with you 100%. The LS 300 engine that Boss Hoss installs is a 4.8 liter engine, which has a cast iron engine block. While the LS3 has an all aluminum engine block.

[Ron Radulski]

Ha, seems the only dumb question is the one not asked!!! I'm glad it's that complicated. I had real problems trying to work it out. Thanks for the link and spec sheet. Just for interest I don't think my heads are aluminium ?

Sounds like you have an all cast iron 350 cubic inch engine in your Boss Hoss, not a ZZ4. IMHO. Triker

[knockdolian]

Ha, seems the only dumb question is the one not asked!!! I'm glad it's that complicated. I had real problems trying to work it out. Thanks for the link and spec sheet. Just for interest I don't think my heads are aluminium ?

Sounds like you have an all cast iron 350 cu
bic inch engine in your Boss Hoss, not a ZZ4. IMHO. Triker

I agree but what would the prefix be ??

[Ron Radulski]

Maybe LT1. The Corvette, Buick Roadmaster & Chevrolet Police cars used the 350 cubic inch LT1 back in the day. In the 90's.

[TXscooterguy]

Maybe LT1.

Does this help?

"The LT1 series Gen II small block Chevrolet is very similar to the standard small block. They use similar internals, exhaust manifolds and oil pans. The main difference in the LT1 is the reverse cooling design, which cools the cylinder heads first, then the block. Because of this, there is no water that passes through the intake manifold. Coolant is transferred from head to head by a steam line on the back of heads. The thermostat is located on the water pump. Also, the water pump is cam-driven, rather than belt driven."

[Jack]

The ZZ4 is not an LT1, or from either of the LT generations (both generations immediately before and after the LS family). There is no prefix... it is basically a GEN1 Small Block Chevy. The LT-1 that came in the Corvette and Z28 in 1970 had the same configuration as the 350s before it (starting in the 67 Camaro) and all of the 350s after it (until the LT1 in 1992 changed several characteristics of the traditional small block and became the GEN2).
The ZZ4 is a GEN1 small block crate motor, like all of the small blocks before it, and is a ZZ4 because of the characteristics they built into the longblock package, including the aluminum heads, 4 bolt mains, etc...
There was a ZZ1,ZZ2,ZZ3 before it and now, just recently, a ZZ6 - which is the latest offering of the GEN1 style crate motors from Chevy... At their core they are all GEN1.
GEN2 - LT1 5.7L - first introduced 1992 vette
GEN3 - LS1 5.7L- first introduced 1997 vette
GEN4 - LT1 6.2L - first introduced in the latest Corvette Stingray. (current corvette, camaro, 1500 pickup)

Each of the generations take on several other naming conventions within the generation (LT-1,LQ4,LS3,LS7, etc...) and the crate motors from those generations take on subnames of the generation ... like an LSX427... an LSX427 has never been in a production car, though the LS7 from the Z06 Corvette was 427 cubes... the LSX427 only ever comes in a box from GMPP. The current LT4 that comes in the Z06 Corvette is the same generation as the current LT1 - GEN4 - but adds several changes to the longblock to support boost, and then they put a TVS blower on top. Displacement being the same, the LS7/LSX427 and the LT1/LT4 are actually pretty different.

[Ron Radulski]

Jack, I never stated that the ZZ4 was a LT1. Knockdolian wanted to know a prefix for his non-aluminum head 350 GM engine in his BH. I just thought that LT1 was the prefix he was looking for. After reading your post hopefully Knockdolian will know there is NO prefix. I know I do now. Triker

[Jack]

No problem triker, just don't think LTs were put into any of the bikes. If the bike didn't have aluminum heads (I'd be surprised) but then it has either had a head swap, maybe over to Vortecs, or it is just your run of the mill GM Goodwrench 350 crate, like I have.
Iron block, iron heads, ~300hp depending on cam and intake.
Usually the aluminum heads are raw, and you can see the bare aluminum and iron heads are painted. A magnet would be an easy way to tell.

What year bike is it? That would help too.

[knockdolian]

Sorry thought I'd said what year. It was a 96 bike now trike. Heads are iron. I'll check for any markings later. I'm only interested more out of Curiosity then the necessity. I've only ever owned British straight 4s & 6s. Always done my own spannering and re builds. Just like to know what I'm riding.

[Paul H]

Back in the early 90's Boss Hoss sold a rolling frame
assemble. It had everything BUT the engine. Someone
may have bought a roller and put an unknown engine
in it. Only the serial numbers on the block and heads
will tell you what have in your BH now trike.

Paul H

[Jack]

Paul has the right idea... pull the numbers off of the block and heads and you'll have a good idea of what you're riding.

I'd imagine most guys back then, if they weren't power hungry, would just buy the very popular GMPP crate motor... "Plain Jane" as we call it. Same motor you'd find in cars, trucks, and vans.

[knockdolian]

Thanks for the info. This is what I do know. The original owner bought the bike direct from BH in 96. It was bought as a complete bike. I had a good look last night. I couldn't see an engine number or any stamped numbers on the heads. That's not to say they aren't there I just can't see them. I did find an, SGI rear left. The plugs are in the head horizontal. Where is the engine number stamped ?

[Paul H]

Right under what appears to a lighted switch panel
is raised in the casting that it is a 5.7. So you know
it's a 350 ci. Maybe if you move the switch panel
you'll see a serial number stamped in the block..
Try looking at the very front or rear of the heads
for some markings of who made them. You do
have what is called straight plug heads.

Paul H

[TXscooterguy]

Anyone know how hard it would be to scan BH's past build sheets with a VIN link? Today's technology should make this doable. Any volunteers looking for a winter project?

[knockdolian]

Right under what appears to a lighted switch panel
is raised in the casting that it is a 5.7. So you know
it's a 350 ci. Maybe if you move the switch panel
you'll see a serial number stamped in the block..
Try looking at the very front or rear of the heads
for some markings of who made them. You do
have what is called straight plug heads.

Paul H

Sorry Paul, I dont know what you mean by straight plug heads. There is no markings on the rear of the heads and without removibf the radiatir I cant see anything on the front. Ill pull the switch at the weekend and see if there is a number visible