Wideband Air/Fuel ratio gauge

[KrautV8]

As my Boss always was on the rich side I thought it's a good idea to buy a wideband AFR gauge to monitor where I'm at and to tune my primarys for best milage and the secondarys for best performance without that too rich lack of power.

I ordered this one yesterday from Summit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-3378/

It's a 07 bike which is prepared for FI - it came with a weld in bung for a lambda sensor on the left header. I plan to install the gauge only to test and tune the carb - not permanent.

Questions: Best AFR for a stock ZZ4 at WOT? Best AFR at cruise and at midrange power? Any ideas? I have heard most engines produce max power at 12.6 AFR at WOT and the economy at cruise is best set at 14.7, idle at 15.0 AFR. Anyone with a stock ZZ4 did that ever before and has experience with a wideband gauge??

Thanks,
Olaf

[Tom]

Olaf... Those numbers sound good but keep in mind your elevation, and if you go lower it will be leaner since a carb can not compensate.

[KrautV8]

Tom,

I have to read and learn a lot more about air fuel ratios before I do the settings and adjustments. I have also heard winter stabilizers in fuel and outside temperatures affect the ratio. I can attach and detach the gauge and sensor whenever I want. I think it might be a good idea to better have it installed for the next riding season just to be safe that the engine will not lean out under certain conditions.

I'm almost at sea level. Does that mean when I set it, let's say at 14.7 at sea level, that my mixture can only go richer, not leaner, no matter where I go?

Thanks,
Olaf

[Tom]

Olaf...
That is correct as far as elevation..... As you know there are other factors as you mentioned.
Keep us posted on how your bike reacts to different weather and conditions... How much lean or rich in your daily riding... Should be fun.

[Paul H]

Some of the newer F I are able to think ( more or less )
and adjust for different elevations and conditions.

Sure they cost more.

But what you have is a great tuning tool.

Paul H

[KrautV8]

Paul and Tom,

that's what I bought it for - as a great tuning tool.

I hoped someone here with a stock ZZ4 has been on a chassis dyno with an air fuel ratio gauge and could tell me numbers....at what AFR the ZZ4 produces most power at WOT and such....that would be a priceless info for me.

I bought a cheap 3 gallon tank 3 weeks ago which were used on east germany 125ccm mopeds from the 60s.

This one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Tank-fuer-Wiesel-ode ... 2558f15d75

Bought an original gas cap and a petcock for it because it was missing on mine. When it came yesterday I was surprised to see how small these petcocks were in diameter...hahahaha...only 5/32" - just enough to feed my idle circuit. No chance to drill it any larger so I have to machine a 3/8 NPT weld-in bung for the tank and use my spare Boss Hoss petcock.

I will also have to weld four mounting brackets on it to be able to install it to the bike. Will look funny for sure. I hope no one sees me while doing the adjustments and jettings....hahahaha...

The gauge will be mounted quick detachable to my handle bar with a gauge mount which is usually build for a 1.5" diameter roll bar. I found it at Summit, it's this one:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-48000/?rtype=10

The lambda sensor wires will be temporarly cable tied somewhere to my frame during the procedure and later, every time after I changed something at the engine to check if everthing is still fine.

I can't wait to get that thing...hahahaha...just another toy in the garage. Think I'm just bored from that ever lasting winter and needed to buy something for my baby )))

I'll let you know what readings I get - before and after.

Thanks,
Olaf

[KrautV8]

The AFR gauge came last week from Summit. The gauge cup with roll bar mount turns out nice for a temporary installation. It's not wired yet, but it's not a big deal. Positive and ground, and one long wire to the lambda sensor. The instructions are easy to understand and it comes with everything needed like a weld in bung, a plug, and some mounting hardware. I'm very happy for now!

More to follow...

Olaf

[KrautV8]

I installed my moped tank in the meanwhile and wired the gauge and tested it. All works like it should and I even did my first test ride today! It was a sunny afternoon, and I really enjoyed the ride, even if my bike looks like crap with this tank....hahahaha...

[AR]

great job Loaf

[firstboss]

Hey Olaf ,
das ist der neue BossHoss-Wiesel-DDR-Style, wenn das Monte sieht geht es in
Serie,mach schnell ein Patent darauf !!!

halte uns auf dem laufenden wie es ist mit der Vergasereinstellung !!!

Gruß Uwe

[KrautV8]

What I found out is:

the idle circuit was a little too rich, at about 12 - so I adjusted it with the idle mixture screws to exactly 14.7

The cruise circuit was WAY too rich - at 10 to 11, which didn't surprised me, cause I knew it ran too rich, just didn't knew how much. I adjusted it with the adjustable part throttle screw and finally got it set at 14 to 14.5, which is close enough.

The secondarys aren't touched yet, but I did a couple of WOT runs and saw that they are a whole lot to rich, going down all the way to 7 or so! I think that is because of the rich CE secondary rods I installed this winter.

I will play a little with the secondary air flap next time I ride it and see if I can have it open a little earlier, that might give me a bigger kick in the ass and lean out WOT a little. If not, I will go back to the DR rods, which are slightly leaner and see if I can make it with them into the 12.5 to 13 range at WOT.

The bottom line is - I'm totally excited about the new gauge. I think this wideband AFR gauge is the best tool I ever bought - a little more expensive than a narrow band, but I would highly recommend it.

Olaf

[KrautV8]

Update:
The secondarys were still to rich after I played with the air flap. I set the pretension of the air flap step by step back, and I finally had it set to less than 1/2 turn, got a big bog, then the engine kicked in and was still way too rich with the CE rods at WOT....between 7 to 9 AFR.

Changed the secondary rods back to the original DR rods and set the pretension just enough to have no bog....approximatly 3/4 of a turn.

The bike runs now strong all the way up to 6000 RPM at WOT with an 11.5 to 12.0 AFR, which is still a little to rich, but close enough to what I was looking for.

So, the DR rods seem to be almost perfect for a stock ZZ4, no need for richer rods. Might be a different story at an other engine setup, but enough, even a little to much for a stock ZZ4.

I thought that might be of interest for the "powerhungry" of us

Olaf

[AR]

Update:
I thought that might be of interest for the "powerhungry" of us

Olaf

Even those that just want the bike to be tuned properly. My next project is to make a 'tunng tank' setup like yours Loaf as i wantto check whats happening with my secondaries. Call me in 2 years when i get around tuit.

[Tom]

Rob... I always used a 1 gallon antifreeze container with a hole drilled in the cap just big enough for the fuel hose to fit snugly and put it in my storage compartment... Free is good.

[KrautV8]

Update:
I thought that might be of interest for the "powerhungry" of us

Olaf

Even those that just want the bike to be tuned properly. My next project is to make a 'tunng tank' setup like yours Loaf as i wantto check whats happening with my secondaries. Call me in 2 years when i get around tuit.

Rob,
if you would live closer to me, then you could come to my home and borrow the tank and the gauge for a couple of days. It's so interesting to monitor how the engine reacts to different adjustments and how the AFR changes at different conditions like first gear/second gear, how does it react to ported vacuum vs. manifold vacuum, what happens when you get off the throttle after a WOT run, and so on...

Sometimes I have a hard time watching on the road to see where I am - instead of watching at the gage to see where the AFR is...hahahaha...I love it

Olaf

[hogv8]

I use a 1 gal plastic lawnmower gas tank for tuning and testing . Nothing fancy but it serves the purpose .

Jack
HOGV8

[AR]

Rob... I always used a 1 gallon antifreeze container with a hole drilled in the cap just big enough for the fuel hose to fit snugly and put it in my storage compartment... Free is good.

duh!


just saved me 2 years work Tom.

[KrautV8]

Update:

I rode about 1000 miles since I installed the air/fuel ratio gauge and since I adjusted the carb. The bike is stronger while the fuel economy is better - I get 21 to 23 miles per gallon with a 50/50 mix of city and highway riding. I could sure go a lot better with 100% highway riding in second gear only, maybe close to 30, but that's no fun - therefore I didn't tried that yet.

I have been out on tour last saturday for almost 200 miles and today it rains, so I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at the spark plugs, just to be safe. As long as I own a Boss Hoss they have ever been somewhat black, one plug more or less than the other, from running too rich.

The plugs are looking perfect and very equal for the first time ever! It can't be any better. I'm so glad I bought the gauge, I can't say enough good words about it and will sure own one as long as I'm able to wrench on my own engines - can't understand why I didn't bought it earlier.

Olaf

[hogv8]

Olaf , you couldn't ask for any better than that . Now the next thing you should do is buy a set of indexing washers and index your plugs . I always did this with my Harley engines and I know car racers do this also for max throttle response and a slight horsepower gain .


Jack

[AR]

Olaf , you couldn't ask for any better than that . Now the next thing you should do is buy a set of indexing washers and index your plugs .

what is 'indexing' ?



Thanks.

[Paul H]

Indexing is getting all the spark plugs pointing in the
same direction. I think if my memory serves me right
the opening should be pointing towards the EX valve.
If you mark the outside of the plug with a marker
so you know where the open side is, you then use the
shims Jack D spoke of to get them all pointing at
that cylinders EX valve. It will perform better for this
action.

Paul H

[Redtro]

I've always been told that if the plugs were black then the engine is running too rich. If the plugs were white then the engine is running too lean. The plugs should run a tan color...not white or black, and given the choice, always error on the side of black because running too lean can cause problems.

But you know how that goes...everyone is an expert....just something that I've been told a long time ago and sounded correct.

[hogv8]

Indexing is getting all the spark plugs pointing in the
same direction. I think if my memory serves me right
the opening should be pointing towards the EX valve.
If you mark the outside of the plug with a marker
so you know where the open side is, you then use the
shims Jack D spoke of to get them all pointing at
that cylinders EX valve. It will perform better for this
action.

Paul H

Actually the open end of the tang should face the squish area of the combustion chamber . Rather than me trying to explain just do a google search on spark plug indexing . It explains the whole thing better than I can . Summit Racing sells the washer and a fixture to set the index on the plugs . It's not hard but does take a little time especially on a V8 .

Jack

[KrautV8]

I've always been told that if the plugs were black then the engine is running too rich. If the plugs were white then the engine is running too lean. The plugs should run a tan color...not white or black, and given the choice, always error on the side of black because running too lean can cause problems.

But you know how that goes...everyone is an expert....just something that I've been told a long time ago and sounded correct.

Rick,
all what you said. Black means too rich, white too lean, brown is just perfect. And rather too rich than too lean.

A slightly rich condition won't hurt much except fouling the plugs and wasting gas. Excessive rich can cause clogging the piston ring gaps after a (long) while at worse, and makes your engine run like crap. But a too lean condition can destroy your engine VERY fast. Too lean will cause serious damage to the exhaust valve, valve seat and/or piston within a short time.

I photographed the spark plugs at least 10 or 15 times, but wherever I put the spot light, one or the other spark plug might look a shade whiter, caused by the lamp - but isn't. That's why I wrote they are all equal. All perfect brown, which never was the case before. They were always between "a little" black and "much too black", and all 8 plugs looked different.

Too my honest opinion it takes a real good and experienced engine guru (I'm far away from that) to tune an engine with that result, or you need an AFR gauge and some time and patience - everything else is like fishing in muddy waters.

@Jack,
I knew a guy from England, his name was Martin, who professional raced his Austin Mini Cooper for many years - he sweared on indexing his spark plugs, and was saying the same what you said, plus the engine is noticable smoother due to the equal combustion in all cylinders.

I don't know if the engine is running any smoother after indexing the plugs, or if there really is a little horsepower gain, but at least it can't hurt and can be done in less than an hour with a beer or two. So why not? I would consider doing it if the shims are not too expensive. I will include a set to my next Summit order if they sell them, so it will give me at least and hour of fun in the garage, and I will see if Martin and you are right on.

I too forgot where the opening has to point to...?

Olaf

[KrautV8]

Actually the open end of the tang should face the squish area of the combustion chamber . Rather than me trying to explain just do a google search on spark plug indexing . It explains the whole thing better than I can . Summit Racing sells the washer and a fixture to set the index on the plugs . It's not hard but does take a little time especially on a V8 .

Jack

.....oh, we were posting at the same time, so I already have an answer to my question. When I have them I will google and see where they have to point to.

Thanks, Olaf