2nd gear light issue - serious

[GordonBH]

Hi All,

Broke down today - first time. I was riding out on a 100 mile trip and after 80 or so with a number of uneventful stops all using reverse on level ground and no issues with the trans at all - pulling strong in 1st and 2nd then noticed that the 2nd gear red light was on all the time, if in neutral or drive those lights were on but the 2nd gear one was on too.

In a town near home I accidentally hit the kill button while indicating, bike died, I went into neutral and no starter!

Couldn't get it to go, so assumed that the wiring to the starter thought I was in 2nd. Called out the rescue man. I suggested we short out the starter and lo and behold it started and idled fine but while running the alarm re-armed but bike stayed running, so tried to run home but bike died after 2 miles and the rescue guy vanned it home. At home I got him to bridge the starter and got it running to get it in the drive I pulled forward and then reversed but no reverse!!! (my heart sank, trans issues!!! I always said they'd be the end for me - no dealer for 3 countries to diagnose let alone fix.

Trans oil at right level, I am praying deeply it's a simple issue with the 2nd gear light switch and it is not letting the reverse solenoid work. For 3 1/2 years it's been perfect in trans performance and I've babied it, any help gratefully received.

Veryt troubled across the pond...

[knockdolian]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I do hope it nothing too serious and you can get it sorted. Good luck mate

[GordonBH]

Cheers Psaul,

Update is that I went out just now, 2hrs later and the 2nd gear light is now out but the starter still didn't fire and the alarm kept resetting so I bypassed the alarm (stupidly easy job) and it starts no problem but still no reverse!!!

Without reverse I'm totally grounded as I can't get it back into my garage due to driveway dynamics.

So am still looking for any reverse gear help guys..... anything I can get to from under the trans would be heavenly.

[Imzz4]

Gordon, I'm not familiar with the new wiring of the indicator lights or the alarm system or how it's tied in. I had several B models apart yrs ago and my 2 cents would be to drop the pan so you can identify the wires of the reverse solenoid and see if you are getting power into it when you press the reverse button. The reverse button may ground a relay out, or may complete the ground circuit for the solenoid itself. Or it may run thru the alarm circuit. In any case , you could isolate the two wires ( perhaps still green and black as I remember) at the plug ( or where ever ) and put 12v on it and see if it clicks. You can also take an ohm reading of the coil and make sure its not open or shorted. I'd guess it could read around 100 ohms?
Another reason to pull the pan is to check the nut on the post that holds the solenoid coil in place. Its not much of a nut and it can't be tightened too much or it will strip. (they may have improved that). But you may find its loose and causing the problem.
When that is solenoid is energized, it opens a small port and allows oil pressure to fill the cavity behind the reverse piston. The piston pushes the attached rod, which pushes the reverse band arm . It simply rests in a pocket at the end of the arm. The other end of that arm is pinned to one end of the reverse band ,which wraps around the outside of the planetary. When the piston and all the related parts move , that band with its friction material bonded to it grab the planetary and hold it tight so it can not turn. This causes the output shaft to turn in the opposite direction (reverse).
Back to the reverse piston. They added a small relief valve in that piston at one point. Its purpose is to dump excess oil pressure when too much oil pressure is present from too much throttle (as in trying to back up too step an incline). This keeps the band from breaking . When this happens while you're backing up , it feels like it just popped out of gear. It takes a minute for things to return to normal. If this small valve is not seating , you will not build enough pressure to hold the planetary. (bad seat, dirt, loose?)
Back to the oil pressure your solenoid lets in. That pressure is only there when the shift drum is rotated into the reverse position. Its just a hole in the valve body and the oil path is either allowed in , or not .
So you have a few things you can look at yourself and see what the real problem is. If the solenoid has no power , just figure out why not by following the flow with a test light. If it's an open circuit when you meter the coil, you can remove and replace it. You can also take the piston out with no problem. that piston has a lip seal on it. Maybe it just has a tear in it.
The arm for the band has a small spring that helps the piston go back in the hole when you remove the 12v from the coil. It too is easy to remove so you can pull the piston out. To install it, I put two zip ties around the spring to compress it. Once its back in place, cut the zip ties with cutters.
I'm not familiar with the indicator light setup ,but if its like the neutral light indicator, a small ball bearing drops into a hole in the drum ,so a blade (looks like a feeler gauge) can touch a screw and make a ground connection for the indicator light. Again, it should be right there were you can see it and check it.
Maybe this will help you and your helper when you decide to dig into it ! I bet its just a wire situation. Good luck.

[mmaupin]

Gordon,

Not sure what year your bike is. On my 03-04 wiring diagram, there are wires 31 and 32. Wire 32 comes from the fuse block (bottom left fuse) and goes to the handle bar reverse switch. On the other side of the reverse switch is wire 31 that goes to the tranny.

[GordonBH]

Thanks guys, great information (the 07 wiring is the same too Mark)

I'll tackle the electrical side first and leave the reverse piston till after I take the family away on a weekend break (boy's toys have to wait)

I've disabled the alarm so will focus on checking the wiring to the solenoid, solenoid functioning then the piston seal. Fingers are crossed.

[GordonBH]

Update:

Short version: reverse is back! it engages perfectly and smoothly, electrical not mechanical, also 2nd gear light is behaving itself.

Long version:

I cleaned all 2nd gear light connections from the oily and dirty trans plug (X years exposure to the dirt and wet), right up to the dash connectors. All works fine now and is protected from the elements.

I checked the reverse button wiring, looked good but somewhere with the alarm failure and shorting of the starter a number of times I found the reverse fuse had blown, to quote Imzz4 "I bet its just a wire situation..."

I also bypassed the alarm by running a switched bypass straight to the starter button - a full function starting system that still includes the neutral light requirement and no threat of the alarm immobilising while riding.

Phew!

Thanks to all, especially Imzz4 (is it Jeff?), I have so much more understanding of the reverse system I will not worry if it happens again - I'll just get in there and fix it. The big bike book was also useful but prices have risen as a solenoid is $200 these days and you have to buy the piston and seal as an $88 unit (just for a seal!)

Ride safe all

[hogv8]

Happy your back up and running , transmission problems always get my complete arresting . Jeff is the man !

[Imzz4]

Gordon that is great news to hear !! And now you know even more about how your bike is wired for anything that comes up down the road.
Somewhere there are a bunch of pictures of parts of my B model all apart when it had broken 1/2 a tooth off the sun gear in the planetary. I don't know where they are , but someone might have them. They show some of what I was trying to describe.
Jack, you're funny (the man). Thats not true, Who wires his new trans temp gauge only to find out every time I use the brakes , the power drops out !! oops . Its on the nc side of the brake relay and drops out along with the tcc solenoid.(which never worked because there was no ground for it.how do you mess up 3 wires??). thanks Jeff

[rocketsteve]

Gordon, you and Paul really need to dump those electric alarms!

Just like all the anti-theft devices - they only stop HONEST folk from theiving what's yours

[hogv8]

Gordon that is great news to hear !! And now you know even more about how your bike is wired for anything that comes up down the road.
Somewhere there are a bunch of pictures of parts of my B model all apart when it had broken 1/2 a tooth off the sun gear in the planetary. I don't know where they are , but someone might have them. They show some of what I was trying to describe.
Jack, you're funny (the man). Thats not true, Who wires his new trans temp gauge only to find out every time I use the brakes , the power drops out !! oops . Its on the nc side of the brake relay and drops out along with the tcc solenoid.(which never worked because there was no ground for it.how do you mess up 3 wires??). thanks Jeff

All I know Jeff you have helped me numerous times with problems I have had and gave me advise on things I wanted to try on my bike and partly because of you I think my bike is one of the most reliable Boss's around , thanks a whole bunch bud .

[knockdolian]

Gordon, you and Paul really need to dump those electric alarms!

Just like all the anti-theft devices - they only stop HONEST folk from theiving what's yours

Fully agree steve . Mine was on it when I bought it . Insurance company insist on one so if anyone asks, I still have one. !!
The guy in London who has just imported a trike has to have one fitted.
Good news Gordon. That was just payback for being so smug about your simple two wire bypass !!! Ride safe, the suns out .

[Orlando606VetteTrike]

Here is the link to the photos of what I think is your tranny apart Jeff. I contacted Wag a while back and he sent me them, which I forwarded to Bill. He then created this link.
https://goo.gl/photos/zZaaf2nGuUh7nViA6

[Imzz4]

Those sure bring back memories . Thanks for going thru the trouble ! Maybe these can ease the pain of tearing into the great unknown should the need be there. I wonder what the parts availability is these days ?

[hogv8]

I heard that Boss Hoss Concepts is rebuilding Nesco's . Apparently their getting parts somewhere ?

[Imzz4]

Jack, when I make it up to your house, I'll bring the beer and the Captn. I'd like to see you and your bike in person. I'd be willing to test your planetary with a burn out in the grandkids sandbox, if that ok ?

[hogv8]

Jack, when I make it up to your house, I'll bring the beer and the Captn. I'd like to see you and your bike in person. I'd be willing to test your planetary with a burn out in the grandkids sandbox, if that ok ?

Jeff , I travel thru your neck of the woods every February on my way to Florida . Sometime I'll have to look you up .
As far as burnouts go I've done my share and my tranny is still shifting like new ( over 85,000 miles ) . Lately I've been kinda taking it easy because of the $300 per tire .
I have done a few minor mods to the trans and one was the reverse servo piston with the pressure relief valve . Every winter I change the trans oil and it is spotless . The only thing I can say is I must have had someone assemble my trans right using quality parts because it's still takes a liking and keeps on ticking .

[GordonBH]

Great pics thanks.

The alarm is compulsory for my insurance here in the UK but when the guy fitted it he had never done a BH and had real problems - he took 2 days as opposed to the 2 hours he normally takes as he couldn't get it to set properly and thinking about it he had a continuous re-setting issue with the ignition on.

He used 2 units before he got it 'working' and signed the essential certificate of full functioning. He still added the extra wiring and told me where those two hidden capped wires were that would bypass it. I got a discount too.

It always chirped 4 times on setting the full alarm (malfunction warning) so I just let it immobilise automatically.

You're right of course Steve the thieving scumbags know all the alarm systems out there. I'm going to seek out a GPS/GSM tracker

[knockdolian]

It always chirped 4 times on setting the full alarm (malfunction warning) so I just let it immobilise automatically.

You're right of course Steve the thieving scumbags know all the alarm systems out there. I'm going to seek out a GPS/GSM tracker[/quote]
Gordon, have you seen the littler tiles you can get from maplins. They are for keys or wallets. About £30 to £40. When you lose it you can track it anywhere in the world on your phone. Glad your sorted.
I too got a discount which has since been offset by the £150 garage bill !!!
Paul

[GordonBH]

Hi Paul,

I'll check them out.