An oil pan mystery rattle, possibly very bad news

[GordonBH]

Hi there, me again,

Got a bad feeling about this, the other day I was checking out tightness of fasteners all over the bike and I was in the area around the trans cooler and patted the oil pan (don't know why) and felt a rattle. Firmer pats sound like there's metal resting on the pan floor which lifts and drops when I pat it hard. Bike's been running fine, no wierd noises, pulls like a train. Everything around is bolted up. Oil pressure is fine.

Obviously, I'm unhappy, to get in there and find out what's in there is a bitch - that crossmember! There's a lot of important gear above that pan so am I stuck with cutting the crossmember? I just don't have the gear to frame-split and lift the engine out - I daren't run the bike now. What gap in the crossmember do I need to successfuly drop the pan?

[SRF]

I would guess your oil pump pickup tube has fallen off. You can drain the oil and stick a piece of wire or something in the drain hole and probably rattle it around too. I just fixed mine and am guessing it had been off for a couple years. I have noticed an oil pressure drop when hitting the brakes for a while. I split the frame and almost removed the engine so I can't help with details of cutting the crossmember. If the tube is off you will need a new one and a special tool to install is very helpful.

Shane

[Carl La Fong]

Here's how I cut my crossmember. You can do it with the bike together, but you'll need to get it up into the air. You'll also need a Sawsall and a welder, but it's a pretty straight forward deal. If the oil pickup has fallen loose, knock it back in and tack it in a few spots with the welder

http://jkcallin.blogspot.com/2010/12/tu ... p-out.html

[GordonBH]

Thanks guys for the speedy responses, much appreciated. I've been out and slapped it again and it does feel like a lighter part than a nut or bolt.

I must confess I haven't thought of reading the pressure on braking. Obviously I need to get that screen back on so it's pan drop time.

Great pics re the crossmember Carl, I'll see what my local fabricator can do as I have no cutting/welding kit (or skills).

Much happier in the shires of England and a timely reminder to read more of the Boy Genius archives.

[hogv8]

I'm still kicking myself in the ass for not making my cross member removable when I had the front section of my frame off for reenforcing front frame legs and neck and relocating my top motor mounts . I guess I got so engrossed in the project at hand that it just slipped my mind . Next time for sure if there is a next time although I hope not .

[CanuckHoss]

Any welder worth his weight in salt can do the cross-member modification.

Jut wondering why you would knock on the pan?? Would never cross my mind.....also...with oil in the pan it would have to be something heavy really to be able to tap it off the pan and have it settle with a thunk thru the oil being there...no??

[Iron Maiden]

I was thinking the same thing canuck - Gordon how is it that you were able to tap on the oil pan and hear something? Any chance you can video and post what you are doing?

BTW Canuck nice signature picture!

[GordonBH]

You know you guys are right, I was taught (back in the seventies) by a wise old mechanic to "pat" everywhere around an engine bay and engine becasue often an early loosening can be identified that way in time.

In this case I was checking out the pan drain plug and just patted the pan - I suppose affectionately

I'll video it and if I can attach it great - never done that before, any tips?

Totally agreee with the Iron maiden, pic like a professional studio shot and breathtaking scenery.

[V8Bikers]

Gordon, the easiest way to post a video here is:

- upload the video to You Tube
- Once uploaded, click the share button below the video, highlight the code and right click to copy
- In the posting window here, above the smilies, there is a "video" button
- Click that and you will see

phpBB [video]

in the window
- Put your cursor between the ][ and right click then submit as usual

Let me know if you have any questions.
Also, sucks that this happened but at least you will have an easier time removing the pan in the future if needed (hope not)

[GordonBH]

Thanks Bill, in the process of uploading to Youtube

[GordonBH]

OK, here goes...

phpBB [video]

It seems to work in the Preview mode, spot-on advice Bill

[V8Bikers]

Glad you got it to work! Can you actually "feel" anything clunking in the pan? I know it's a long shot but are you absolutely sure that there is nothing loose against or near the pan?

[GordonBH]

Yes Bill, I can feel it come back down, I'm going to thoroughly go over everything in teh area before committing to cutting anything but it's dark here so will have to be tomorrow.

[GordonBH]

Hi guys,

Couldn't resist getting out there and testing Bill's worthy challenge but couldn't get anything to rattle outside the pan so it's time to plan the cutting and welding project.

I'll cut and make up the flanges and I've got an experienced trusted guy who'll come to my garage when I'm ready to weld it all up. It might be a week or two but I'll keep you posted, may take some pics too.

[SQ4MN]

I have not been able to relate to any way that you could tap your pan and have any object bounce upward thru the oil and then come downwards thru the oil and make a noise or land with enough force to let you feel it. Why not drain the oil and borrow or buy a BORESCOPE and look inside the pan, the object should be easily big enough to see if there is one.

[Sonny]

After watching that video I'm still skeptical of how something could clunk so seemingly easily and quickly after the tap, and through a pan full of motor oil. Just for shits and giggles I'm gonna go out and try the same thing.

[GordonBH]

I appreciate the skepticism - I respect your opinions and experience, I also asked myself what could move through cold 10w-30 but I feel it and hear it, I'm going out to run a few experiments with objects in a pan of 10w-30.

I'm holding back on cutting the crossmember until I get more info so hanging onto this thread.

[SQ4MN]

I appreciate the skepticism - I respect your opinions and experience, I also asked myself what could move through cold 10w-30 but I feel it and hear it, I'm going out to run a few experiments with objects in a pan of 10w-30.

I'm holding back on cutting the crossmember until I get more info so hanging onto this thread.

I for one am amazed at this particular thread. I keep checking to see if the mystery gets solved. Sonny even went so far as to tap on his pan but didn't report back yet. Next someone will report that they tapped on their pan but to hard in an effort to make something happen and their bike tipped over. Nothing would surprise me any more.

[hogv8]

I tapped on my pan , nothing . If I did hear something I would do the bore scope thing before I cut anything .

I think I remember Grumpy saying he cut out his cross member and reattached it with sleeves instead of flanges . Not sure exactly how he did this but it seems doable . Probably slip fit sleeves bolted thru the frame similar to the way the frame split is only with the sleeves on the outside if the frame instead of the inside .

[GordonBH]

OK, set up an oil bath 1 1/4" deepish of pure fresh 20W oil, heavier than 10W and should be considerably more viscous than my current used contents.
Then put in a 1/2" nut and tapped the base - no movement, as expected - too light. So went up to a 1/2" x 1 1/4" long bolt and it leapt up enough to see movement and feel it land again. I haven't weighed anything as I don't have that range scales.

The bolt's movement through the oil was clear to see and even one edge of the bolt head cleared the surface and produced tiny bubbles.

I expect the oil pickup tube and its filter would be weighty enough to be lifted up through the oil and gently clunk back down.

I'll take the borescope advice and look in. It'll be a few days before the scope is posted but for you guys engaged in this wierd thread I'll try to record it.

[3FOR2]

+1 on the borescope
Can't wait...


I tapped on mine, and it giggled,
Tapped again, a little harder, and it burped,
Tapped again, really hard, and it farted!

[CanuckHoss]

Thanks for the comments on our picture...we had professional ones done...very worth the money.

Now...onto the pan.

I am skeptical...is there in fact something or was something maybe left in the pan on assembly?? I guess the colonoscopy of the oil pan will tell ...maybe...exactly what is in there..I honestly had a hard time really hearing from the video.

If your oil pressure is normal all the time then why bother fixing what is most likely not broke??

This is a bizarre thread for sure and hopefully everybody does not start tapping / pounding on their oil pans...

[Iron Maiden]

I am also intrigued with this thread and impressed with Gordon's attire while working on his bike

[GordonBH]

You're right Sue, I am relying on my wife not seeing the youtube as that was a shirt she bought for me for a birthday - I just couldn't wait to video the tapping so dashed down to the garage to film it. The video doesn't do the noise any justice either. We'll have to wait and see.

At least we are getting some entertainment out of it (well I must say it's of concern to me).

I think it should be part of routine maintenance - just think of it pan tapping from Germany to NY, then PA down to Florida across to SoCal via Vegas up to Airdrie.

I'm torn as I also believe in "if it ain't broke don't fix it" so I'm looking forward to getting the endoscope and shoving it in (always thought I'd make a good surgeon).

I also thought of something left in assembly or some people mention a 'plug' that can be left in from making the dipstick hole but that seems spurious to me.

I've got to take my daughter back to Cambridge University tomorrow so will have to wait till Monday to drain the oil and poke a wire in and scratch about.

The saga continues...

[mdwdvm]

How about placing a strong magnet on the bottom of the pan in the area where you feel the 'clunk' and then tapping again? If after doing so there is no more noise or feel of the mystery element contacting the pan, it might also be further evidence that something is indeed laying in the pan. Just another thought............still not the answer but perhaps something easy to do that at the very least would add to the story.