Brake fluid
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Steve Taylor
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Brake fluid
Please can anyone tell me what brake fluid is used in the Kannon? IE dot 4 or 5?
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gaston 2005 502
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Re: Brake fluid
Phil,, from my knowledge ALL motorcycles use dot 5, and not dot 5.1 or dot 4. here is my post from a while back on what i have found about brake fluid,, kinda long winded,,,
I always heard dot 5 brake fluid is used to prevent the fluid from boiling. About 20 years ago i was at a friends and she said she was getting her BMW serviced and they were flushing the radiator and flushing the brake system. Flushing the radiator i can understand, but i did not understand, or hear of previously flushing the brake system. They said it was to prevent corrosion. At the time dealing with strictly american cars i thought they "were getting to her" because she was a woman. I did not think anymore about it, until now. But what is the corrosion caused by? Water in the system? When checking brake fluid in a new vehicle, it is always clean, yet in older vehicle it discolors, so if it is discoloring, it's getting brake dust in the system from the pistons in the calipers and water could be introduced the same way, & other ways come to find out. I have not flushed brake systems in the past but i am going to start. Your post got me thinking of how little i know of brake fluid, so i looked and found 2 interesting articles on brake fluids. The below articles are very long winded but i learned something, and thought others might as well. They are speaking of cars, but,. The articles were copied and edited for relevance to dot 5 usage on motorcycles.
The table below shows the MINIMUM wet and dry boiling points for DOT 2, 3, 4, and 5 brake fluids in degrees Fahrenheit.
DOT 3 Dry Boil 401, wet boil 284, DOT 4 Dry Boil 446, Wet Boil 311, DOT 5 Dry Boil 500, Wry Boil 356.
DOT 5 is for silicone brake fluid. Silicone brake fluid (DOT 5) is not compatible with regular brake fluid, it is hard to pour without introducing bubbles and thus results in soft pedal feel, and moisture still gets into your system and will pool in low areas like your calipers and encourage rapid corrosion.
The amount of moisture in brake fluid definitely affects its performance. The big problem is it is absorbs moisture quickly. Over a relatively short period of time brake fluid will absorb moisture from the air. SAE field tests have shown that the average one year old car has 2% moisture in the fluid. A random test of vehicles in the U.S. showed an average water content of 2.6% for vehicles with an average age of 8 years. And 25% of these vehicles had water content greater than 4%.
As water content in brake fluid increases over time, the boiling point decreases. Fluid with a reduced boiling point (or high water content) can create vapor by boiling in the caliper, or wheel cylinder. The result is sudden brake failure. And water in the brake fluid can contribute to corrosion of parts such as steel pistons and ABS modulators.
The end result is even though DOT 3 fluid is "rated" at greater than 401oF, in the typical 3 to 4 year old car with 3 to 4% moisture content, it could boil under 300oF. And if it has got more than 4% moisture, you may as well be running straight water!
Moral: Flush your brake fluid every year or so. But only if you would like it to work well scarcely an inch away from those toasty 500oF rotors. Or would you rather have a squishy pedal?
Another article found gives more details, as follows:
Brake Fluid 1A
by Carroll Smith and James Walker, Jr. of SCR motorsports
Carroll Smith's Notes on Brake Fluid
Brake fluid is possibly the single most neglected component of the automobile. Most high performance drivers check their tire pressures and change their engine oil at frequent intervals. Virtually no one (including me) ever changes the brake fluid in their street car - or even bleeds the brakes. WRONG!
The function of brake fluid is to provide an incompressible medium to transmit the driver’s foot pressure on the brake pedal through the master cylinder(s) to the calipers in order to clamp the friction material against the discs. The foot pressure is multiplied by the mechanical pedal ratio and the hydraulic ratio of the master cylinders, booster (if used) and caliper piston(s).
This is a simple concept. When fresh, all brake fluids are virtually incompressible and the system works as well as its mechanical and hydraulic design allows. There are, however significant problems. Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a soft brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates pumping the brake pedal in order to get a pedal at all.
This leads to a discussion of boiling points. Brake fluids are classified by both dry boiling point and wet boiling point. They are also classified by US Department of Transportation (DOT) rating, DOT 3, DOT 4, DOT 5, and DOT 5.1.
As we would expect the dry boiling point is just that - the temperature at which a given brake fluid boil when it is fresh out of the can. This is the rating by which most high performance drivers and all racers select their brake fluid from the standard racing 550 degrees Fahrenheit to the 600+ degrees Fahrenheit offered by the extreme use fluids.
For high performance street car use, the wet boiling point is at least as important as the dry. DOT 3 DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 brake fluids are ether based and, as such they are hygroscopic in nature - i.e. they adsorb water at every opportunity. Since water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Celsius) the adsorbed water dramatically lowers the boiling point of the brake fluid. A minute amount of water suspended in the fluid decreases the boiling point as much as 1/3.
The fluid in the system absorbs water through the breathers, through the caliper piston seals and by magic. Not only does this reduce the boiling point, the entrained water leads to corrosion of both ferrous and Aluminum internal parts. So buy your brake fluid in small containers and don't save the leftovers.
But upgrading the fluid is not the whole answer. Unfortunately the hygroscopic nature of the ether based fluids means that they should be completely replaced at scheduled time based intervals (annually would be good) and that the system should be bled to replace the fluid in the calipers every time that it is overheated to the point of generating a soft pedal. Yes, the pedal will come back as soon as the fluid cools somewhat - but the boiling point is now reduced and the pedal will go mushy at a lower temperature the next time.
Ah ha, you say - but what about the much touted Silicone based brake fluids? They are non hygroscopic and should take care of the reduced boiling point and corrosion problems. True! That's the good news. That is why they are specified by the U.S. Military. Unfortunately the silicone based fluids are compressible themselves so they produce a soft pedal all by themselves. In fact, low compressibility is a desired characteristic in a high performance brake system lower compressibility results in more linear force output for driver input and improved driver feedback.
James Walker's Notes on Brake Fluid
DOT ratings
So, what exactly is the DOT rating telling us?
DOT 3 fluids are usually glycol ether based, but that is not because they are required to be. In fact, FMVSS116 makes no mention whatsoever about the chemical compounding of brake fluids it simply dictates the fluid physical properties. However, the brake fluid industry has by consensus decreed that glycol ether fluids are the most economical way to meet the requirements, so there you are.
These glycol ether fluids are typically a by-product of the process used to make certain paints and varnishes. By definition, DOT 3 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point (measured with 0% water by volume) of 401F and a minimum wet boiling point (measured with 3.7% water by volume) of 284F. That's really about all the specification says as far as the performance enthusiast is concerned.
DOT 4 fluids are also glycol ether based, but have a measure of borate esters thrown in for improved properties including increased dry and wet boiling points. A seldom talked about characteristic though is that because of this chemistry, the DOT 4 fluid will have a more stable and higher boiling point during the early portion of its life, but ironically once the fluid does actually begin to absorb water its boiling point will typically fall off more rapidly than a typical DOT 3. By FMVSS116 standards, DOT 4 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point of 446F and a minimum wet boiling point of 311F.
As a trailing note on the DOT ratings, if your car was designed for a particular type of fluid (especially prior to the development of DOT 4 fluids), you should make every attempt to stick with that fluid! For example, if your car was delivered with DOT 3 fluid, the internal components of the system (seals, brake hoses, and fittings for example) were specifically designed and tested for compatibility with DOT 3. Because DOT 4 fluids contain a different chemical composition, the system may not necessarily react in a positive fashion to the borate esters floating around in the mix.
In other cases, just the difference in viscosity of the two different fluids may cause the seals to wear at different rates. What starts as an annoying squeak might eventually become a torn seal or worse. The examples could go on and on, but the message here is this: it's fine to upgrade from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 3 fluid B, but you should think twice (maybe even three times) before switching from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 4 fluid of any sort.
That said, when dealing with modern hydraulic braking systems a numerically higher DOT rating is typically considered to be compatible with a lower DOT rating (except for DOT 5, of course). Unfortunately, this same generality just isn't true for most older hydraulic system materials.
Why the heck do we use brake fluids that absorb water in the first place?
Believe it or not, one of a brake fluids most vital characteristics is its ability to absorb water. Yes, you read that correctly, brake fluids absorb water by design and that is really a good thing.
What?
Whether we like it or not, water is everywhere and finds its way into everything. That's just the nature of the beast. Even our brand-new sealed brake system will eventually absorb water given enough time.
The magic of diffusion allows moisture in the air to permeate microscopic pores in the rubber brake hoses, the nylon master cylinder reservoir, and the various rubber seals in the hydraulic system. Sadly, there is nothing we can do about it and if left unchecked the water would sit in our brake system and rot it away from the inside out.
Hence the need for brake fluid to absorb this unwanted house guest. Because brake fluid absorbs water into solution, the local concentration levels are typically low enough that corrosion is slowed dramatically. As an added benefit, when exposed to low temperatures, the solution state prevents the water from pooling and freezing on its own. While water in brake fluid will certainly increase the solution viscosity at low temperatures, this is much more desirable than having little chunks of ice plugging up the system!
So, the next time you are bleeding your brakes to remove the water-contaminated fluid, don't curse at the automotive gods too loudly. After all, the fluid was only doing its job.
Hey you didn't mention DOT 5.1 fluids!
Historically, DOT 5-level performance (specifically boiling points and viscosity) could only be achieved with silicone-based fluids. However, modern compounding has created glycol ether-based fluids which now meet DOT 5 bogeys in these key areas. Consequently, the DOT 5.1 moniker was created to differentiate between these two very different chemistries which both meet DOT 5 performance requirements.
In so many words, DOT 5.1 fluids are simply DOT 4-type fluids which meet DOT 5 performance requirements. Because of this, they typically can be mixed with DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluids without concern. In some circles, they are even referred to as DOT 4 Plus â or â Super DOT 4â fluids because they are more similar to a conventional DOT 4 fluid by chemistry than they are to a conventional DOT 5 fluid. In fact, DOT 5.1 is essentially comprised of Borate Esters.
While it may not be obvious, the big advantage of the DOT 5.1 fluids is that they contain all of the nifty water-absorbing characteristics of the DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids while simultaneously providing for very high boiling points and relatively stable viscosity over a wide range of temperatures.
So why is silicone-based DOT 5 fluid more compressible than other fluids?
On their own, silicone-based DOT 5 fluids are entirely different animals than DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. In addition to having characteristically higher dry and wet boiling points, they also tend to have much, much lower viscosities. In other words, they flow more easily relative to temperature.
Now, all fluids have a certain amount of compressibility to start with, but adding even the smallest amount of air into the solution can dramatically increase the amount of elasticity in the system. In the case of silicone-based fluids, air is quite happy to take up residence between the brake fluid molecules, and as a result the fluid compressibility goes down. This is felt at your foot like stepping on a big spring. As you can imagine, more air = more spring.
Speed costs money as the saying goes, and so does performance braking.
Well i guess i get to flush my system when i get home, i have to change my rear brakes anyway.
Darryl
I always heard dot 5 brake fluid is used to prevent the fluid from boiling. About 20 years ago i was at a friends and she said she was getting her BMW serviced and they were flushing the radiator and flushing the brake system. Flushing the radiator i can understand, but i did not understand, or hear of previously flushing the brake system. They said it was to prevent corrosion. At the time dealing with strictly american cars i thought they "were getting to her" because she was a woman. I did not think anymore about it, until now. But what is the corrosion caused by? Water in the system? When checking brake fluid in a new vehicle, it is always clean, yet in older vehicle it discolors, so if it is discoloring, it's getting brake dust in the system from the pistons in the calipers and water could be introduced the same way, & other ways come to find out. I have not flushed brake systems in the past but i am going to start. Your post got me thinking of how little i know of brake fluid, so i looked and found 2 interesting articles on brake fluids. The below articles are very long winded but i learned something, and thought others might as well. They are speaking of cars, but,. The articles were copied and edited for relevance to dot 5 usage on motorcycles.
The table below shows the MINIMUM wet and dry boiling points for DOT 2, 3, 4, and 5 brake fluids in degrees Fahrenheit.
DOT 3 Dry Boil 401, wet boil 284, DOT 4 Dry Boil 446, Wet Boil 311, DOT 5 Dry Boil 500, Wry Boil 356.
DOT 5 is for silicone brake fluid. Silicone brake fluid (DOT 5) is not compatible with regular brake fluid, it is hard to pour without introducing bubbles and thus results in soft pedal feel, and moisture still gets into your system and will pool in low areas like your calipers and encourage rapid corrosion.
The amount of moisture in brake fluid definitely affects its performance. The big problem is it is absorbs moisture quickly. Over a relatively short period of time brake fluid will absorb moisture from the air. SAE field tests have shown that the average one year old car has 2% moisture in the fluid. A random test of vehicles in the U.S. showed an average water content of 2.6% for vehicles with an average age of 8 years. And 25% of these vehicles had water content greater than 4%.
As water content in brake fluid increases over time, the boiling point decreases. Fluid with a reduced boiling point (or high water content) can create vapor by boiling in the caliper, or wheel cylinder. The result is sudden brake failure. And water in the brake fluid can contribute to corrosion of parts such as steel pistons and ABS modulators.
The end result is even though DOT 3 fluid is "rated" at greater than 401oF, in the typical 3 to 4 year old car with 3 to 4% moisture content, it could boil under 300oF. And if it has got more than 4% moisture, you may as well be running straight water!
Moral: Flush your brake fluid every year or so. But only if you would like it to work well scarcely an inch away from those toasty 500oF rotors. Or would you rather have a squishy pedal?
Another article found gives more details, as follows:
Brake Fluid 1A
by Carroll Smith and James Walker, Jr. of SCR motorsports
Carroll Smith's Notes on Brake Fluid
Brake fluid is possibly the single most neglected component of the automobile. Most high performance drivers check their tire pressures and change their engine oil at frequent intervals. Virtually no one (including me) ever changes the brake fluid in their street car - or even bleeds the brakes. WRONG!
The function of brake fluid is to provide an incompressible medium to transmit the driver’s foot pressure on the brake pedal through the master cylinder(s) to the calipers in order to clamp the friction material against the discs. The foot pressure is multiplied by the mechanical pedal ratio and the hydraulic ratio of the master cylinders, booster (if used) and caliper piston(s).
This is a simple concept. When fresh, all brake fluids are virtually incompressible and the system works as well as its mechanical and hydraulic design allows. There are, however significant problems. Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a soft brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates pumping the brake pedal in order to get a pedal at all.
This leads to a discussion of boiling points. Brake fluids are classified by both dry boiling point and wet boiling point. They are also classified by US Department of Transportation (DOT) rating, DOT 3, DOT 4, DOT 5, and DOT 5.1.
As we would expect the dry boiling point is just that - the temperature at which a given brake fluid boil when it is fresh out of the can. This is the rating by which most high performance drivers and all racers select their brake fluid from the standard racing 550 degrees Fahrenheit to the 600+ degrees Fahrenheit offered by the extreme use fluids.
For high performance street car use, the wet boiling point is at least as important as the dry. DOT 3 DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 brake fluids are ether based and, as such they are hygroscopic in nature - i.e. they adsorb water at every opportunity. Since water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Celsius) the adsorbed water dramatically lowers the boiling point of the brake fluid. A minute amount of water suspended in the fluid decreases the boiling point as much as 1/3.
The fluid in the system absorbs water through the breathers, through the caliper piston seals and by magic. Not only does this reduce the boiling point, the entrained water leads to corrosion of both ferrous and Aluminum internal parts. So buy your brake fluid in small containers and don't save the leftovers.
But upgrading the fluid is not the whole answer. Unfortunately the hygroscopic nature of the ether based fluids means that they should be completely replaced at scheduled time based intervals (annually would be good) and that the system should be bled to replace the fluid in the calipers every time that it is overheated to the point of generating a soft pedal. Yes, the pedal will come back as soon as the fluid cools somewhat - but the boiling point is now reduced and the pedal will go mushy at a lower temperature the next time.
Ah ha, you say - but what about the much touted Silicone based brake fluids? They are non hygroscopic and should take care of the reduced boiling point and corrosion problems. True! That's the good news. That is why they are specified by the U.S. Military. Unfortunately the silicone based fluids are compressible themselves so they produce a soft pedal all by themselves. In fact, low compressibility is a desired characteristic in a high performance brake system lower compressibility results in more linear force output for driver input and improved driver feedback.
James Walker's Notes on Brake Fluid
DOT ratings
So, what exactly is the DOT rating telling us?
DOT 3 fluids are usually glycol ether based, but that is not because they are required to be. In fact, FMVSS116 makes no mention whatsoever about the chemical compounding of brake fluids it simply dictates the fluid physical properties. However, the brake fluid industry has by consensus decreed that glycol ether fluids are the most economical way to meet the requirements, so there you are.
These glycol ether fluids are typically a by-product of the process used to make certain paints and varnishes. By definition, DOT 3 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point (measured with 0% water by volume) of 401F and a minimum wet boiling point (measured with 3.7% water by volume) of 284F. That's really about all the specification says as far as the performance enthusiast is concerned.
DOT 4 fluids are also glycol ether based, but have a measure of borate esters thrown in for improved properties including increased dry and wet boiling points. A seldom talked about characteristic though is that because of this chemistry, the DOT 4 fluid will have a more stable and higher boiling point during the early portion of its life, but ironically once the fluid does actually begin to absorb water its boiling point will typically fall off more rapidly than a typical DOT 3. By FMVSS116 standards, DOT 4 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point of 446F and a minimum wet boiling point of 311F.
As a trailing note on the DOT ratings, if your car was designed for a particular type of fluid (especially prior to the development of DOT 4 fluids), you should make every attempt to stick with that fluid! For example, if your car was delivered with DOT 3 fluid, the internal components of the system (seals, brake hoses, and fittings for example) were specifically designed and tested for compatibility with DOT 3. Because DOT 4 fluids contain a different chemical composition, the system may not necessarily react in a positive fashion to the borate esters floating around in the mix.
In other cases, just the difference in viscosity of the two different fluids may cause the seals to wear at different rates. What starts as an annoying squeak might eventually become a torn seal or worse. The examples could go on and on, but the message here is this: it's fine to upgrade from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 3 fluid B, but you should think twice (maybe even three times) before switching from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 4 fluid of any sort.
That said, when dealing with modern hydraulic braking systems a numerically higher DOT rating is typically considered to be compatible with a lower DOT rating (except for DOT 5, of course). Unfortunately, this same generality just isn't true for most older hydraulic system materials.
Why the heck do we use brake fluids that absorb water in the first place?
Believe it or not, one of a brake fluids most vital characteristics is its ability to absorb water. Yes, you read that correctly, brake fluids absorb water by design and that is really a good thing.
What?
Whether we like it or not, water is everywhere and finds its way into everything. That's just the nature of the beast. Even our brand-new sealed brake system will eventually absorb water given enough time.
The magic of diffusion allows moisture in the air to permeate microscopic pores in the rubber brake hoses, the nylon master cylinder reservoir, and the various rubber seals in the hydraulic system. Sadly, there is nothing we can do about it and if left unchecked the water would sit in our brake system and rot it away from the inside out.
Hence the need for brake fluid to absorb this unwanted house guest. Because brake fluid absorbs water into solution, the local concentration levels are typically low enough that corrosion is slowed dramatically. As an added benefit, when exposed to low temperatures, the solution state prevents the water from pooling and freezing on its own. While water in brake fluid will certainly increase the solution viscosity at low temperatures, this is much more desirable than having little chunks of ice plugging up the system!
So, the next time you are bleeding your brakes to remove the water-contaminated fluid, don't curse at the automotive gods too loudly. After all, the fluid was only doing its job.
Hey you didn't mention DOT 5.1 fluids!
Historically, DOT 5-level performance (specifically boiling points and viscosity) could only be achieved with silicone-based fluids. However, modern compounding has created glycol ether-based fluids which now meet DOT 5 bogeys in these key areas. Consequently, the DOT 5.1 moniker was created to differentiate between these two very different chemistries which both meet DOT 5 performance requirements.
In so many words, DOT 5.1 fluids are simply DOT 4-type fluids which meet DOT 5 performance requirements. Because of this, they typically can be mixed with DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluids without concern. In some circles, they are even referred to as DOT 4 Plus â or â Super DOT 4â fluids because they are more similar to a conventional DOT 4 fluid by chemistry than they are to a conventional DOT 5 fluid. In fact, DOT 5.1 is essentially comprised of Borate Esters.
While it may not be obvious, the big advantage of the DOT 5.1 fluids is that they contain all of the nifty water-absorbing characteristics of the DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids while simultaneously providing for very high boiling points and relatively stable viscosity over a wide range of temperatures.
So why is silicone-based DOT 5 fluid more compressible than other fluids?
On their own, silicone-based DOT 5 fluids are entirely different animals than DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. In addition to having characteristically higher dry and wet boiling points, they also tend to have much, much lower viscosities. In other words, they flow more easily relative to temperature.
Now, all fluids have a certain amount of compressibility to start with, but adding even the smallest amount of air into the solution can dramatically increase the amount of elasticity in the system. In the case of silicone-based fluids, air is quite happy to take up residence between the brake fluid molecules, and as a result the fluid compressibility goes down. This is felt at your foot like stepping on a big spring. As you can imagine, more air = more spring.
Speed costs money as the saying goes, and so does performance braking.
Well i guess i get to flush my system when i get home, i have to change my rear brakes anyway.
Darryl
Darryl Campbell
Re: Brake fluid
How many of you subscribe to this theory? I know there are a lot of factors involved but wanted to see who does this as a matter of regular maintenance.Moral: Flush your brake fluid every year or so.
DeLand, FL.
"This is just one of the many reasons I love V8Bikers; able to openly display T&A, curse, say what you will;
able to be a fucking man here. Thanks Bill" - Grand Canard
Re: Brake fluid
V8Bikers wrote:How many of you subscribe to this theory? I know there are a lot of factors involved but wanted to see who does this as a matter of regular maintenance.Moral: Flush your brake fluid every year or so.
Hi Bill -
I tend to be a little over the top with my maint schedules BUT to answer your question ... I do flush old brake fluid each and every year, I also flush out any of my bikes that have hydraulic clutch. My BMW GSA and the GT clutch(s) uses mineral oil as fluid (a lot less hydroscopic then brake fluid) and I still flush them each year ...
Don
PS
Just for reference I used to take my bikes apart to clean and polish them every winter ... haven't done that in a couple years.
IF YOU TELL THE TRUTH YOU DON'T HAVE TO REMEMBER ANYTHING
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Carl La Fong
- $ite $upporter
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Re: Brake fluid
Too much to read in that post.
I guess I fall into the other side of the maintenance bell curve. I've never flushed out a brake system, as a normal part of maintenance, on any vehicle that I've ever owned. Actually, I've never flushed out anything, other than a few radiators. I can also state that I have never had a failure or a breakdown on anything that I've owned, in over 50 years, that could be attributed to not flushing out a system.
But, it can't hurt. I guess there's no such thing as too much maintenance.
I do change the air in my tires monthly, as it gets stale and stinky in there
I guess I fall into the other side of the maintenance bell curve. I've never flushed out a brake system, as a normal part of maintenance, on any vehicle that I've ever owned. Actually, I've never flushed out anything, other than a few radiators. I can also state that I have never had a failure or a breakdown on anything that I've owned, in over 50 years, that could be attributed to not flushing out a system.
But, it can't hurt. I guess there's no such thing as too much maintenance.
I do change the air in my tires monthly, as it gets stale and stinky in there
Re: Brake fluid
I change out brakes an clutch every year had a chattering noises brakes once an found fluid was issue so change no more noise
Re: Brake fluid
Carl La Fong wrote:Too much to read in that post.
But, it can't hurt. I guess there's no such thing as too much maintenance.
I do change the air in my tires monthly, as it gets stale and stinky in there
I agree, way too much reading and it's OLD! I managed to get through a paragraph or two
I probably go/went overboard due to loooooong winters in Maine! Having months of non riding time avail I just spent it wrenching on the bikes. I have slacked off a lot since moving to the "armpit" I now live in ...
Question regarding the "air swap" was that recommended by the BH Guru you quote in your sig line? If it is approved I may have to look into that ... my air only gets changed on tire swaps now
IF YOU TELL THE TRUTH YOU DON'T HAVE TO REMEMBER ANYTHING
Re: Brake fluid
I also have never flushed any bike or cars brake fluid I've ever owned. I'm definitely an old fart since the first cars I drove which were model A Fords then 1933 Fords didn't even have hydraulic brakes, they had rods leading from the pedal to the backing plates. Hydraulic brakes came standard on the 1939 Fords and that was a big deal. In any case I've owned a lot of cars and bikes since and never flushed any and never had a failure. All the early bikes had mechanical brakes and Harley finally got hydraulic brakes in late fifties, maybe 1958 if I remember right. In those days people would have thought you were nuts if you told them you were going to change your brake fluid.
Las Vegas, Nevada-
randy burkey
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:24 pm
Re: Brake fluid
While I had my bike at mountain getting the upper motor mounts welded,(both were cracked) They flushed the coolant and I asked them to flush both brake systems and it "seemed" to help rear brake performance, although still not enough brake for my liking..And on my KTM dirt bike the front brake would go away after sitting for a while. But after flushing out all the old fluid they work fine now..So I guess it does help but I still don't do it!