Monte

[CanuckHoss]

I believe that the way Boss Hoss was and is set up is they need lots of dealers...period.... to sell their product. Having a small dealer that at least has one on the floor is great in my opinion. I learnt early in my business life about 25 years ago that "a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing" and I carried that philosophy through.

Having an entry level is I think a necessity. LS300 bike or trike with a simple paint scheme. They did it at $39,900 for the 25th Anniversary..they can do it again. Not everybody needs an LS3....actually they do but going to the Ls300 from a 100HP Harley or Honda or Indian even is a big step. Harley did not make every bike a 110" Screaming Eagle..the standard was a 96"

I believe Boss Hoss can survive but they must be smart about it.

[SQ4MN]

I believe that the way Boss Hoss was and is set up is they need lots of dealers...period.... to sell their product. Having a small dealer that at least has one on the floor is great in my opinion. I learnt early in my business life about 25 years ago that "a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing" and I carried that philosophy through.

Having an entry level is I think a necessity. LS300 bike or trike with a simple paint scheme. They did it at $39,900 for the 25th Anniversary..they can do it again. Not everybody needs an LS3....actually they do but going to the Ls300 from a 100HP Harley or Honda or Indian even is a big step. Harley did not make every bike a 110" Screaming Eagle..the standard was a 96"

I believe Boss Hoss can survive but they must be smart about it.

Barry, what would a dealer have to pay for a bike that he sells for $39900? THE FACTORY WOULD EVEN GET LESS THAN THAT. The cost to manufacture the bike when insurance, rent, utilities, supplies, employee pay, employee benefits, to name just a few of the things factored into factory price would be close to or more than what a dealer would have to pay for a $39900 bike. With such a small profit the factory would have to sell many to stay in business and the owners would have small profits if any yet large responsibilities. I stand by my prediction that there will be no more Boss Hoss before 2017 ends. I hope you will be able to point at me and tell me that I was wrong.

[barbarianv8]

i think Boss Hoss can survive,but they will need to restructure the company.
a much smaller factory with only a few employees and no dealer network would be a better way to go and allow them to stay in buisness

[Jack]

If you're trying to support a factory, with factory workers... you need volume.
A niche market cannot support a factory. A niche market doesn't necessitate a factory. If you have an assembly line it has efficiency in mind... you should be able to churn out bikes efficiently, keep the overhead per bike low, and make profit based on volume sales. Nothing is preventing BH from making $70k bikes - go for it... but what is preventing them from making $30k bikes? It is the same line, same workers, same quality - but you remove the fluff. I know there is a TON of profit to be made in the fluff, some companies survive on that and keep the volume sales stuff just to keep people working - because it doesn't hurt.

How many lights in the factory have to be kept on to build 1 bike as opposed to 10? The technicians in the factory probably have specialties and work on components of the product... once you make 1 wire harness for a $70k bike, why not make 5 more for the $30k variety?
The building was staged for global sales... and it sounds like they are struggling with limited sales.
BH won't survive - and certainly wont thrive - with single digit sales on near triple digit bikes... It would be in their best interest to shut down the current factory and downsize to support a niche market.

My $0.02... I'm not a business owner, and I have no business sense. I haven't pulled out my wallet to put my money where my mouth is, but I'm trying to provide constructive criticism. The majority of the response I see is people asking for an entry level bike - but the response seems to be that it is impossible to make a cheap bike and survive... but your expensive bike option isn't working either.

EDIT - I see barbarian had a similar line of thought. What a beautiful bike Warren!

[ventury]

Some great input,,,Jacks right
Here is the only out of date brochure add I have seen,i think it 20yrs old maybe

Rick put his efforts,energy and money into trying,,,that's the spirit that lacks in all levels of life .I know I would be feeling pretty shitty trying to pick myself up after such a defeat ,A very public defeat at that

Dave,,,,,sadly you have some good pointsregarding the reality of BH.I had Hoped Rick would succeed

V8s intimidate many,few will even ride one,even fewer will own one

Barry,,,that made me laugh

502 Wingman,,, is on the money regarding clear pricing

SQ4MN,,,,,Dave very well put,,,I would love to say your wrong but I think your right


I hope Rick picks himself up and remains the good knowledged V8 contributer/enthusiast he is

Ventury

[TXscooterguy]

Barry, what would a dealer have to pay for a bike that he sells for $39900? THE FACTORY WOULD EVEN GET LESS THAN THAT. The cost to manufacture the bike when insurance, rent, utilities, supplies, employee pay, employee benefits, to name just a few of the things factored into factory price would be close to or more than what a dealer would have to pay for a $39900 bike.

I've been told that a 20% margin is common for motorcycles. So let's say a dealer can make $8,000 on the sale. That means the factory gets $31,900. Insurance, rent, utilities, other items usually don't increase for each additional unit produced. So each additional unit built (assuming it's above it actual cost) makes a contribution to fixed overheads. I'm guessing a crate 4.8L motor and 4L70E transmission would be about $8,000. So can Boss Hoss finish the trike for under $23,900? I was fortunate enough to buy the last 25th Anniversary Coupe. I'm retired. The purchase kicked a big hole in my 401k. I'm glad I got it, but wouldn't have been able to at current MSRPs.

[CanuckHoss]

i think Boss Hoss can survive,but they will need to restructure the company.
a much smaller factory with only a few employees and no dealer network would be a better way to go and allow them to stay in buisness

I disagree...produce an entry level bike / not so intimidating and help established Aftermarket shops floorplan one bike...that gets some numbers

Trying to survive on any one brand is for the BigBoys..Boss Hoss is about 5% of my business at best...there has to be shops looking for additions to what they do and wanting a bike that would attract people to their shop...that is what Boss Hoss has done for me...I had a name for myself and Boss Hoss brand before I even opened.

[CanuckHoss]

I believe that the way Boss Hoss was and is set up is they need lots of dealers...period.... to sell their product. Having a small dealer that at least has one on the floor is great in my opinion. I learnt early in my business life about 25 years ago that "a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing" and I carried that philosophy through.

Having an entry level is I think a necessity. LS300 bike or trike with a simple paint scheme. They did it at $39,900 for the 25th Anniversary..they can do it again. Not everybody needs an LS3....actually they do but going to the Ls300 from a 100HP Harley or Honda or Indian even is a big step. Harley did not make every bike a 110" Screaming Eagle..the standard was a 96"

I believe Boss Hoss can survive but they must be smart about it.

Barry, what would a dealer have to pay for a bike that he sells for $39900? THE FACTORY WOULD EVEN GET LESS THAN THAT. The cost to manufacture the bike when insurance, rent, utilities, supplies, employee pay, employee benefits, to name just a few of the things factored into factory price would be close to or more than what a dealer would have to pay for a $39900 bike. With such a small profit the factory would have to sell many to stay in business and the owners would have small profits if any yet large responsibilities. I stand by my prediction that there will be no more Boss Hoss before 2017 ends. I hope you will be able to point at me and tell me that I was wrong.

Honestly I hope you are wrong too Dave...

The whole thing is a numbers game...

[wag]

Then theres the reality of once you buy one, it's nearly impossible to sell a used one unless you give it away.
I've had mine for 13 yrs, had tons of fun, still having fun and not yet had a significant tranny issue. I'd let it be garage art before I'd sell for some of the prices I've seen here.

[barbarianv8]

i think Boss Hoss can survive,but they will need to restructure the company.
a much smaller factory with only a few employees and no dealer network would be a better way to go and allow them to stay in buisness

I disagree...produce an entry level bike / not so intimidating and help established Aftermarket shops floorplan one bike...that gets some numbers

Trying to survive on any one brand is for the BigBoys..Boss Hoss is about 5% of my business at best...there has to be shops looking for additions to what they do and wanting a bike that would attract people to their shop...that is what Boss Hoss has done for me...I had a name for myself and Boss Hoss brand before I even opened.

an entry level Boss Hoss built buy the existing factory and sold through a Dealer wont help the Company ,as the overheads are too high too make much profit.
but an entry level bike is a good idea for the new smaller factory to sell directly to the customer

[CanuckHoss]

Then theres the reality of once you buy one, it's nearly impossible to sell a used one unless you give it away.
I've had mine for 13 yrs, had tons of fun, still having fun and not yet had a significant tranny issue. I'd let it be garage art before I'd sell for some of the prices I've seen here.

I have had really good luck getting decent resale money out of any I have helped guys sell here or sold myself.....lucky I guess..I don't know

[wag]

I don't know the prices you've gotten but I have seen quite a few go for $18,000 or less. To me thats not good resale when a person has $45-50,000 invested.

[SQ4MN]

Another factor is that the bikes and especially the trikes will damn near last forever. They use mostly off the shelf automotive parts. Its harder for many to trade up as it costs so much when there is nothing wrong with the old one. I have had the same two V8 bikes for many years with no major problems, sure I would like the newest and the greatest but its not like my older V8 bikes are not fun anymore. If a guy is rich he can scratch that itch but for many of us it just doesn't make sense. I would have more faith in the company lasting if Monte was really enthusiastic about it and willing to do what it would take to keep it going. My feeling is he would rather sell it and it almost already closed the doors until Rick came along. There aren't many business men that will look at the company profile and think its a good investment. Rick had a love of the bikes enough for him to take the plunge but its unlikely to find another with the same passion.

[petitemoose]

Another factor is that the bikes and especially the trikes will damn near last forever. They use mostly off the shelf automotive parts. Its harder for many to trade up as it costs so much when there is nothing wrong with the old one. I have had the same two V8 bikes for many years with no major problems, sure I would like the newest and the greatest but its not like my older V8 bikes are not fun anymore. If a guy is rich he can scratch that itch but for many of us it just doesn't make sense. I would have more faith in the company lasting if Monte was really enthusiastic about it and willing to do what it would take to keep it going. My feeling is he would rather sell it and it almost already closed the doors until Rick came along. There aren't many business men that will look at the company profile and think its a good investment. Rick had a love of the bikes enough for him to take the plunge but its unlikely to find another with the same passion.

I know of others that were willing to pony up the bucks and make a go of Boss Hoss V2.0 before Ricky struck his deal with them. Monty was asking for unrealistic things as part of the deal which ultimately killed it.

I knew Ricky had a helluva fight and was hoping for nothing but the best for him. I do NOT know what kind of fight he had going on in the background but I imagine it was constant and brutal.
I am deeply saddened that it turned out like it did and I wish I could do something to change it, But i can't.

[CanuckHoss]

I don't know the prices you've gotten but I have seen quite a few go for $18,000 or less. To me thats not good resale when a person has $45-50,000 invested.

I know tons of customers with $50,000 Canadian dollars into HD bikes that they later sold for under $20,000

Unfortunately Motorcycles are not an Interest Bearing Savings Account.

[CanuckHoss]

Grand Canard and Arizona Outlaw,

I read the shit that you two have been sending each other over the last several months, and you both sound like a couple of fucking kids. Your both full of BS...I don't know how you got me involved in your shit on here Rick, BUT LEAVE ME THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR CRAP. I had enough of your dishonesty when I met you guys in Dyersburg putting the BH deal together. You don't stab a friend in the back!!! You weren't even man enough to call me when you screwed us over. You had Travis call me and try to explain. Keep me and my name out of your shit on here or my partners and I will let everyone know what really went down with BH. I am sure you don't want that!!!
Richard Zukierski Aka 2 CRZY

I had one of my IT friends investigate 2czy and Arizona Outlaw, he very quickly confirmed that they share the same IP address. Hahaha

Richard "THE DICK" Zukierski is without doubt Arizona Outlaw AND 2czy; they are both the same piece of shit, lying coward, no-good rotten fuck Richard Zukierski out of Alberta.

Richard, "you're gonna get it", until then eat shit and die you fucking DICK!

Rick,

That is the problem with these Forums...people join up and you don't even know if they own a bike or where they live or what they look like..no profile pic, no signature pic and no bike pic. How can we take them seriously. Some are Keyboard Fucking Warriors out to raise shit...no names mentioned!!

[TXscooterguy]

I had one of my IT friends investigate 2czy and Arizona Outlaw, he very quickly confirmed that they share the same IP address.

I do not wish to participate in this fecal eating fest you guys got going here and I wouldn't know what an IP address looks like if it bite me on the ass, but is this something anyone could determine from the public data on this forum or did you get help from the Russians accessing data that would not be available to other forum members?

[502wingman]

Entry level is certainly a point but here in (Northern)Europe it is not major. You wouldn't believe with the European Central Bank flooding the markets with money how much of that stuff is around trying to find a home. Some banks here already start charging interest for keeping cash in your account!!!

We were lucky enough that about our first rally in Pullman City a professional DVD has been produced (and from all 12 of them) This DVD aired a hundred times on a TV-sportschannel. Also we had a 5 page report about a really nice lady (Susi) riding a LS3 like a bicycle in the largest MC-magazine that we have. So most of the bikers in this country have a least heard of and know what a BH is. We have 4.500.000 bikes on the road here. Get only 1% interested in BH and only 1% finally buy one, that would be already a 3 year production of the current factory.

Believe me, I know how that marketing thing works. There are literally hundreds of angry customers here that want to buy a Boss Hoss bike, but they cant because they are not available. Boss Hoss Germany/Europe does not do Demo rides and does not go to all the shows anymore because they are afraid that a customer wants to buy a Boss Hoss bike. Even if one says that money is not an issue and they are willing to pay over price (like a Porsche GTR3) the answer is NO.

I rather feel like crying than laughing.

The US economy is a serious issue, but it is not the major reason why sales for BH are low. Europe kept the company afloat at least since 2010 ! They could have sold 1000 bikes since then but they didn't because they had no transmissions. Can you believe it. Since 2011/12 we are talking about new European standards coming in 2016/17. Well this is 2016/17. They may be allowed, on an exemption, to sell some "2016" old style LS3s. But after that is it as far as I can see.

So Dave is right when he says that they wont survive till the end of 2017. Monte is not interested and he hasn't been for along time.

It will take BIG money to give birth to a new pony. The old horse is dead.

[BossHossJohn]

Would love to see the cost of an entry level bike... and then the MSRP. The pieces are already in place at the factory to produce a bare bones solution for bare bones guys... at hopefully a bare bones cost.

I can buy a GEN3 LS motor from a junkyard for $500, so you put that sweet new tranny in your frame, with your front end, controls, and all of the fixins (raw tins, harness, wheels/tires, etc...) and put it in a box... let me supply the motor... what does that look like from a cost perspective? Is it government regulation preventing that from happening or internal regulations? They don't want to? Maybe there is good reason, I don't know.

And I have to second the sentiments of a prior caller... lol
Whether I like it or not - social media is here for the long run... get used to it. I haven't seen a new video from the BH factory on YouTube. I don't think I've ever seen a video from the factory, or a dealer, pushing the product. I've probably watched every V8 motorcycle video that is on the internet at least 5 times... I am not alone!

For those of you that don't know, YouTube has over 1 BILLION users... it is free to join and free to share, and you can make money by just having a successful channel. Did you know that my shitty Boss Hoss video that was taken 9 years ago has almost 200k hits? Imagine if there was a Boss Hoss channel that people like me, and from around the world, could subscribe to... I'd get frequent updates about the bikes you're making, the designs that are in the works, customer feedback, dealer updates, etc... It is all about getting your product in front of as large of an audience as possible... Know how many guys are sitting behind their computers watching the bike shows from their couches? Not everyone can get to the bike shows... not everyone wants to... I have to say, I'm a little let down every time I pick up a Harley mag and there isn't any coverage on anything that interests me, because I like raw HP... I don't really care about cafe bikes in the least... and baggers aren't my thing.

This link may show you what you're leaving on the table -
https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/96-amaz ... -for-2016/

Entering the social media realm is free... creating your content is free... not doing anything is costly...

We live in a time of instant gratification and impulse buying... and there are guys on here, in the "know", that can't even find the prices for what they're interested in.



And just my $0.02 for SQ4MN -
I'm not arguing with your experience, I believe every word you said... but I disagree with your opinion on who would want to buy vs who you sold to.

I only know a handful of people who can write a check for more than $20k at a time... without writing a much larger one to cover the divorce. You do understand that you have to be fairly well off to pay over $50k for a bike - right? I agree with your sentiments that the V8 Chopper is a beautifully engineered, hand built piece of perfection, I'd love to have one... but I cannot afford one. I'm a working man, I work for the man - not my own gig, I have kids and a wife, and bills to pay, truck payments, school loans... etc...

I know a bunch of guys that would rather drive a $20k truck instead of a $50k truck if it meant they had a $30k bike to ride all summer... Sure, they would finance it (have you seen interest rates lately? You'd be silly not to) ... But they can't even afford a used V8C...
Nothing like painting yourselves into a corner by identifying 1% of the population with enough money to buy one, and then 1% of those guys who actually want one... V8 Chopper sales are what they are, I'm not aware of 1 in Western NY, but I know where a handful of Boss Hoss bikes are. As I type this, it is about 16*F out... so we only have a limited riding season, but our Buffalo guys love their bikes.

I bet I know a few Buffalo Bills that would love to ride a nasty V8 bike at our rallys... but I bet they don't know that they even exist.

I don't know anyone's situation on this forum, but it seems like some have so much money, and hang out with money, that you don't realize that even having a 6 figure job doesn't mean you can spend half of it on a toy. More power to you, but don't let it jade you to the point that makes you think the bikes are priced right - the market is telling you otherwise.

[CanuckHoss]

Peter..

The basics of the bike is there. It does not pass emissions but I am sure it could with bigass mufflers with cats and some leaning out..that is exactly what Harley Davidson is doing and then after the sale they do a Stage One...pretty simple.

It is too bad that Boss Hoss Germany did not buy the company as they know exactly what needs to be done and I think have the will and knowledge to do it.

AND you say the market for them, if approved, is there.

[ventury]

Peter..

The basics of the bike is there. It does not pass emissions but I am sure it could with bigass mufflers with cats and some leaning out..that is exactly what Harley Davidson is doing and then after the sale they do a Stage One...pretty simple.

It is too bad that Boss Hoss Germany did not buy the company as they know exactly what needs to be done and I think have the will and knowledge to do it.

AND you say the market for them, if approved, is there.

The U.K are soon to be limiting the BHP allowed,under the new European directive from Brussels.Although we voted brexit which will one day clear the way to kinder limts,In the mean time the UK will still be governed by the restrictions that the rest of the EU have to abide by

some call it Liberalism gone mad,
Ventury

[Oldun]

As others have said, kudos to Ricky and his partners for stepping up and trying to improve the Boss Hoss product; and there have already been spin-off benefits. I wish it could have worked out but as they say, wish in one hand, s**t in the other, see which fills up first...

As long as there are spares, I intend to keep enjoying the V8 ride. I hope someone else can make the company work better for themselves as well as for the customer case.

Speaking of spares - I'm wondering if 3D printing of one-off parts will keep us on the road if / when the factory spares supply dries up?

[Jack]

Bike pic

Thanks John.
It's a shame, was his last season in the NFL, I don't think anyone even got to see the trike in Buffalo.


And for those of you talking emissions, does the GM crate motor called the E-ROD make any sense to use? It was developed with emissions in mind.

[SQ4MN]

This post is mainly for John who I know and respect. I am not implying that everyone has a boatload of cash to spend but I am just relaying my own experience selling NEW V8 Choppers. I did it for only 3 shows as they are in the other end of the country and at the time I also had a small trucking company that hauled construction materials here in Las Vegas. If I worked the shows I lost some money in trucking. When I first tried selling the Choppers I went to Sturgis just to see how I would do and as a favor to Stan who had become like a little brother to me. Stan and I were the only salesman back then and I was AMAZED at what happened. The bikes drew crowds very easily and in three days I sold six bikes and Stan sold two or three. We had no more bikes and EVERY one was sold with cash or a check paid in full. I had never sold bikes before but my enthusiasm for V8 Choppers was super high and it was just easy. I know most people can not afford a new Boss Hoss or V8 Chopper but they can probably afford a used one and that is how I bought both of mine. The fact is that if a factory builds a new one it can not be sold for 40000 or less for very long and stay in business UNLESS it could sell them in high volume. V8 bikes will NEVER sell in high enough volume for that to happen even if they were only 30000. The bikes are limited to guys that want something very different from what most riders want. If they were real common then even some of us wouldn't want them as much either. There are other bikes for less that will do certain things better. I think the KIT approach might be good for guys like you John and even me and some others on here but GOV REGULATIONS will kill that idea for the few states that you can still do it in. I think Gov Regs will eventually kill all V8 bike manufacturers and not to far in the distant future. Keep the V8 bikes you have, buy new ones if you can, build your own if you can but the era of new manufacturing new ones is coming to an end. Any BUSINESSMAN looking at buying Boss Hoss will probably think it more profitable to buy a PIZZA franchise. Once again I hope I am wrong, we shall see.

[barbarianv8]

This post is mainly for John who I know and respect. I am not implying that everyone has a boatload of cash to spend but I am just relaying my own experience selling NEW V8 Choppers. I did it for only 3 shows as they are in the other end of the country and at the time I also had a small trucking company that hauled construction materials here in Las Vegas. If I worked the shows I lost some money in trucking. When I first tried selling the Choppers I went to Sturgis just to see how I would do and as a favor to Stan who had become like a little brother to me. Stan and I were the only salesman back then and I was AMAZED at what happened. The bikes drew crowds very easily and in three days I sold six bikes and Stan sold two or three. We had no more bikes and EVERY one was sold with cash or a check paid in full. I had never sold bikes before but my enthusiasm for V8 Choppers was super high and it was just easy. I know most people can not afford a new Boss Hoss or V8 Chopper but they can probably afford a used one and that is how I bought both of mine. The fact is that if a factory builds a new one it can not be sold for 40000 or less for very long and stay in business UNLESS it could sell them in high volume. V8 bikes will NEVER sell in high enough volume for that to happen even if they were only 30000. The bikes are limited to guys that want something very different from what most riders want. If they were real common then even some of us wouldn't want them as much either. There are other bikes for less that will do certain things better. I think the KIT approach might be good for guys like you John and even me and some others on here but GOV REGULATIONS will kill that idea for the few states that you can still do it in. I think Gov Regs will eventually kill all V8 bike manufacturers and not to far in the distant future. Keep the V8 bikes you have, buy new ones if you can, build your own if you can but the era of new manufacturing new ones is coming to an end. Any BUSINESSMAN looking at buying Boss Hoss will probably think it more profitable to buy a PIZZA franchise. Once again I hope I am wrong, we shall see.

SQM,you are a very astute guy but i have to disagree.

it is definately possible to build a very good v8 bike in the USA for a sale price of just under $40 000 and then make a profit of $10 000 per bike
selling about 20 bikes a year in usa is very doable.
sell another 20 v8 trikes a year and a number of kits,and you are making well over $400 000 profit per year.

as far as emmisions are concerned, i can fit the latest 2017 model Corvette v8 motor in a Barbarian v8 bike.
add pre approved cattalitic exhausts and the bike can pass all American State and European emmision standerds.
its also very easy to add ABS brakes for European needs.
so staying ahead of the Government regulations is doable.

you are very correct when you say that it does take a serious motorcycle or hot rod enthusiast to step up to the plate and give it a shot.

Boss Hoss has a long history and a large following,so i think that somebody will take the Company forward.
they just cant expect to sell hundreds of units per year and will need to restructure accordingly